Author Topic: UAV, I choose you!  (Read 6710 times)

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Offline Thaeris

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Even the Mk. 80 series bombs (without guidance units/packages) are fairly expensive, are they not?
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"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


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Offline Bobboau

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I'm sure there is some missile somewhere that costs on the order of a million dollars.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Even the Mk. 80 series bombs (without guidance units/packages) are fairly expensive, are they not?

Mk 84 cost about $3,100.  1/3 the amount of a single Sidewinder.

I'm sure there is some missile somewhere that costs on the order of a million dollars.

Mostly just cruise missiles.  Fighter-based missiles are far less expensive (with notable exceptions--the Tomcat-combatible only Phoenix cost about $450K per unit).
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Offline NGTM-1R

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I don't dispute the effectiveness of UAVs, but I think there are some things in military aviation you will absolutely need a pilot for. If anyone can show me a UAV outmaneuvering a piloted fighter aircraft...

That's easy and a Predator is fully capable for the same reason the A-10 is the most manuverable aircraft in the US inventory: they're really slow so they have small turning circles.

It's just that turning circle is only one useful measure of performance. Speed is probably worth more.
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Offline StarSlayer

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I don't dispute the effectiveness of UAVs, but I think there are some things in military aviation you will absolutely need a pilot for. If anyone can show me a UAV outmaneuvering a piloted fighter aircraft...

That's easy and a Predator is fully capable for the same reason the A-10 is the most manuverable aircraft in the US inventory: they're really slow so they have small turning circles.

It's just that turning circle is only one useful measure of performance. Speed is probably worth more.

In a guns only dog fighting exercise the A-10 is the most despised opponent for fighter jocks.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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UAVs can actually exceed piloted craft rather easily; they don't have to worry about g-force limits on the pilot.
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Offline Thaeris

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Before certain limitations were put on their operations, the F-4 drones used as aerial targets could evade missiles by pulling insanely high-g maneuvers which would not easily be handled by the standard pilot...

...I want inertial dampners, damnit!  :p
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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althought there are still limitations with airframe stressing and loss of control.  but i guess if you are planning on losses, airframe isn't of huge concern.
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Offline Bobboau

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yeah, the whole point of UAVs is you can get 100 of them for the price of a single fighter.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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honestly i'd love to see a swarm tactic air engagment in the modern arena.  can you imagine a guns-only furball of 100 drones?  :eek2:
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Offline Liberator

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Offline Dilmah G

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Quote
who cares it's a UAV, it's cheap and disposable.
Not when it's ferrying troops, it's not. I'm hoping for their sake troop transport comes under the category of utility.

And it's not really the cost of losing the aircraft that makes UAVs viable, it's the cost of a lost pilot, someone far more valuable than any hunk of metal with a computer in it. And who probably costs more in the long run.

In a guns only dog fighting exercise the A-10 is the most despised opponent for fighter jocks.
Well if it ever becomes a real issue for a knuck, he can just outrun a 'hog if he's flying something decent. And if you're in a dogfight in an A-10, I'd say you're in trouble anyway. :P

That's easy and a Predator is fully capable for the same reason the A-10 is the most manuverable aircraft in the US inventory: they're really slow so they have small turning circles.

It's just that turning circle is only one useful measure of performance. Speed is probably worth more.
That's fair enough... If it doesn't get shot down from 24 miles away first. :P

 

Offline Bobboau

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Not when it's ferrying troops, it's not. I'm hoping for their sake troop transport comes under the category of utility.
good point. I wasn't thinking of that particular application.

And it's not really the cost of losing the aircraft that makes UAVs viable, it's the cost of a lost pilot, someone far more valuable than any hunk of metal with a computer in it. And who probably costs more in the long run.

"compared to a full sized fighter and pilot."
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Quote
who cares it's a UAV, it's cheap and disposable.
Not when it's ferrying troops, it's not. I'm hoping for their sake troop transport comes under the category of utility.

It is.  The Huey, Blackhawk, Chinook, and (to some extent) Osprey all fall under the category of utility.  I think the military understands that, for now, UAVs simply can't match a pilot's instinct or training.  Predators and Reapers are essentially throwaways--it's great if they come back, but losing them isn't as great a blow as losing a Blackhawk with ten people onboard.

When the technology's more refined, I can definitely see utility aircraft being turned into UAVs though.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Thaeris

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As a lover of flight and aviation, I am instinctually opposed to UAVs; however, they most certainly are viable tools for many of todays combat operations. I tend to think of them as "re-usable cruise missiles," lightweight weapon systems which can deploy lightweight payloads. The ability to drone about for hours without putting stress on an operator is quite valuable for FAC, though I would rather have the system operators in the general theater of operations so as to enhance communications between the operators and the given flight system.

However, for serious combat duty, however, I'll always side with manned aircraft, especailly for the purposes of transporting personnel.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Flaser

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Your attitude is very American. However part of the reason why "casualties" are so expensive is thanks to how much they're played up in the media and how badly images of captures and/or tortured pilots can harm the war effort.

I can't help but recall Soviet tactics that didn't give a damn.
...massed wave attacks, suicide missions and equipment that was just good enough.

It was nasty, but they *did* win the war. Also they had no choice - the war was fought on their own soil over their own town and cities, their own land.

Our "sensibility" is a new thing and is an indication of how used modern societies are to peace and prosperity.

I think there are going to be some rude wake up calls in the future when - thanks to diminishing resources almost out of necessity - the new nations with little such inhibitions will stretch their muscles.
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Offline chief1983

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Your attitude is very American. However part of the reason why "casualties" are so expensive is thanks to how much they're played up in the media and how badly images of captures and/or tortured pilots can harm the war effort.

I can't help but recall Soviet tactics that didn't give a damn.
...massed wave attacks, suicide missions and equipment that was just good enough.

It was nasty, but they *did* win the war. Also they had no choice - the war was fought on their own soil over their own town and cities, their own land.

Our "sensibility" is a new thing and is an indication of how used modern societies are to peace and prosperity.

I think there are going to be some rude wake up calls in the future when - thanks to diminishing resources almost out of necessity - the new nations with little such inhibitions will stretch their muscles.
Hmmm... I think they were referring to the cost of a pilot, not about sensibility.
Let me assure you, a good fighter pilot is something really expensive to find and train. Maybe more than the fighter or the armament themselves *.
And I'm assuming an helicopter pilot is cheaper, but still expensive.

But then again, I could be wrong.



*: Is "themselves" the proper word to use there? Considering I'm not talking about persons, but about objects instead...

 

Offline Scotty

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Your attitude is very American. However part of the reason why "casualties" are so expensive is thanks to how much they're played up in the media and how badly images of captures and/or tortured pilots can harm the war effort.

And, you know, the millions of dollars and man hours that go into each one.  Just a little.

I can't help but recall Soviet tactics that didn't give a damn.
...massed wave attacks, suicide missions and equipment that was just good enough.

The same Soviet tactics that got nearly 10 million people killed in WWII.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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and the same ideology that led to Chernobyl
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