[The E]

No, you can get banned or monkeyed for IRC misdemeanors if those spill over onto the board proper. In this particular case, dANGER_boy is not banned from HLP, because he didn't make a post about him breaking the DRM on some DLC. However, always assume that the same rules that apply to HLP also apply to #hard-light, especially when the less forgiving chops are around.

As far as I know, noone has yet been banned for appearing in some chatlog, even if they broke the board rules in the process. Whether or not they were allowed to remain on #hard-light after they made those statements is a different question.

So. Policy at the moment is to deal with people making trouble on IRC on IRC. However, once that spills over to the board, board rules apply, and the prior history on IRC may play a role in determining the level of punishment.

[Herra Tohtori]

Though EsperNet is not based solely in the United States, EsperNet has decided to adopt some of its laws and legal definitions. These include, but are by no means limited to:

    * Prohibition of the distribution of child pornography.
    * Prohibition of illegal distribution of software protected by copyright laws (also known as "warez").
    * Prohibition of illegal distribution of other copyrighted intellectual property.

In actuality, dANGER_boy's actions would warrant a network wide ban from EsperNet... depending on how they define "distribution".

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I know we're discussing this over IRC now, but I thought I should also post our stands here as well, for those who don't go on IRC that often.

As per the above quote from the charter, I don't think dANGER violated any rules, simply because he didn't post any links. Herra, on the other hand, states that he has violated the rules on technical grounds because he mentioned The Pirate Bay. My counter-argument is that TPB hosts thousands of torrent files; his is a needle in a stack of needles. In addition, to get to his torrent, you need to know how to get to TPB first - which is not just simply http://tpb.com - then do a manual search, entering all the correct search terms, before you even have a hope of seeing his torrent on the list of results.

[Nuclear1]

oh lordy you're all taking this way too super serial

Just discourage it.  As long as there's no links it shouldn't matter. 

[Fury]

That would usually be the case, but this time this particular idiot admitted of
1) Creating a crack
2) Distributing said crack

It's not exactly what an average joe would, or could do. Which makes it that much more serious of an offence.

[Aardwolf]

 

    * Prohibition of illegal distribution of software protected by copyright laws (also known as "warez").

It says distribution, not discussion. And then there's the matter of scope: an IRC network's rules apply to stuff happening on the IRC network, and only on the IRC network. The distribution did not occur on esper, only discussion of the distribution. It's outside of their jurisdiction.

Nobody here has been deputized by the esper network, or the copyright holders of whatever software dANGER_boy may have distributed. The responsibility to penalize dANGER_boy is the copyright holder's and the copyright holder's alone.

[headdie]

    * Prohibition of illegal distribution of software protected by copyright laws (also known as "warez").

It says distribution, not discussion. And then there's the matter of scope: an IRC network's rules apply to stuff happening on the IRC network, and only on the IRC network. The distribution did not occur on esper, only discussion of the distribution. It's outside of their jurisdiction.

Nobody here has been deputized by the esper network, or the copyright holders of whatever software dANGER_boy may have distributed. The responsibility to penalize dANGER_boy is the copyright holder's and the copyright holder's alone.

true but the "discussion" was purely about this person engaging in illegal activity that runs counter to the views of this community including the creation and/or use of hacks to bypass software security, is that something we want on the channel?

i for one support the ban, not sure about the need to report the activity to esper though, but the comment could be construed as an advert to the fact that this hack is now available

[The E]

Yes, it could, if you were feeling particularly ruleslawyerish.

[Nuclear1]

Let him talk about it...there's no real harm from just talking about the crack.  Just remember to drop in and remind everyone that it's illegal, and not to actually use it. 

It's not exactly legal to set traps and make choral hydrate, but Ragnar Benson's books (which give step-by-step guides) are still out there.  Frankly, as long as no one's in danger, or being threatened, then just let it go.  Besides, he just inadvertently helped the developer by finding a way the software was broken and needs fixing.

[Dilmah G]

Well, he was distributing it, wasn't he? Which is just *kind of* illegal.

[chief1983]

So let me get this right...
The IRC is casually moderated.
However, you can be punished on HLPBB if someone posts a conversation log?

Two points...
Is the IRC channel Official or Unofficial? If the latter, then offenses on IRC should be dealt solely on IRC.
How can you verify that someone actually said that?

[00:17]   <chief1983>   why was the IRC topic moved to site support?
[00:17]   <Goober_5000>   Because it belongs there. Stop questioning my authority.
[00:18]   <Androgeos>   chief1983: He asked for the operators. That's asking for support.
[00:19]   <chief1983>   what?
[00:19]   <chief1983>   GTFO, Goober_5000
--- chief1983` has banned *!*@pool-173-50-237-248.ptldor.fios.verizon.net
*** Goober_5000 was kicked by chief1983 (GTFO)

No offense to anyone in there; I just picked some bits of conversation and copied some names in there.

In regards to the first few sentences of that which were quoted accurately, itt seems the confusion was that someone thought I was talking about this thread, or something.  I recieved an email notifying me that the HLP IRC thread had been moved to a new location, and was confused why this was done.  I don't even know anything about this banning of someone, but yeah, repeated violations of EsperNet policy are definitely grounds for an IRC banning.  The IRC channel generally is more laid back, things that will get your posts deleted here usually fly on IRC, mostly because it's not something that there's a public record of.  We still try not to grossly offend anyone in the channel, but it often boils down to a GenDisc level of absurdity.  That's why so many channels have forked off of it.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Despite this, the HLP IRC is still one of the best ways to make friends with everyone on HLP. I see Kazan, Battuta, Mura and Hades having an extremely lively discussion about EVE Online battleships there right now.

[Scotty]

It kicked me out for some reason earlier.  Something about my nickname already being in use.  It kicked me out while I was using that nickname.

[RangerKarl]

Someone already registered your nick, Scotty? "Scotty" is a pretty common name after all...

[Scotty]

No, it happened twice, on two nicks I was using.

Plus, it would tell me if it were a registered name and make me change back or get booted within the minute.

[chief1983]

You can customize the time you have to change your nick before being auto kicked.  Or, the user with your nick could have turned that off and manually ghosted you.  If you don't have the nick registered, register it, or pick something else and register it.  Don't just try to use someone else's nick.

[Aardwolf]

I feel a need to repeat myself:

Nobody here has been deputized by the esper network, or the copyright holders of whatever software dANGER_boy may have distributed. The responsibility to penalize dANGER_boy is the copyright holder's and the copyright holder's alone.

[captain-custard]

this seems to be a worrying developement ........; watch out ppl , soon they will be trolling your facebook aswell....

but in all seriousness, ppl let there hair down in IRC, and many things said in there would get you 14 years hard labour in some places in the world, i believe that some ppl are just a little too uptight ...... which i have had personal experience off...

live a little:
love a little:
laugh a lot

lifes good that way

[Fury]

I feel a need to repeat myself:

Nobody here has been deputized by the esper network, or the copyright holders of whatever software dANGER_boy may have distributed. The responsibility to penalize dANGER_boy is the copyright holder's and the copyright holder's alone.

That is not quite so. Site or channel administration can be held responsible should blatantly illegal activity take place without appropriate consequences.

Should EsperNet ircops learn what transpired in the channel and that no action were taken against dANGER_boy by channel operators, EsperNet can close the channel if they so want, or take another action they feel appropriate. They may also have obligation to report such activity to authorities, which could potentially lead to closer scrutiny of channel activities and possibly even site activity.

At the point where existence of channel or site is threatened even slightly, there is no doubt you will face harsh consequences. And as such, dANGER_boy is permanently banned from the channel. He is however, not yet banned from the site.

Seriously, common sense? Is it too much to ask if people would use it?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I decided to bring this debate to the EsperNet help channel. The channel admin that responded to my query seems to agree with Fury, so there we go.