[Marcov]

Volition hasn't given any canon regarding how big the Ancients' Empire actually grew. What we know was that they were a society similar to the GTVA, but with a far more advanced knowledge on subspace.

This poem states something:

"We know our fate.
We are being eliminated.
When we traveled subspace, the cosmic destroyers took note.
When we conquered and colonized in galaxies where we had no place, the destruction and the anguish and the loss were the clarion call of our doom."

- This may hint out that the Ancients probably had an empire spanning multiple galaxies, but the poem could just be dramatizing how powerful the Ancients were.

"And we discovered subspace.  It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. 
And we saw other advanced life.  And we subdued it or we crushed it. 
In months, the elimination of billions of years of evolution.  On a similar but slower path.
."

- This may hint out that the Ancients had already conquered their entire galaxy, and continued attempting to conquer the entire universe.
- Also, if they had encountered multiple species, isn't it possible that they had a far larger empire than the Terrans or Vasudans, who encountered only each other?

[freespacegundam]

I would say multiple (2-3) galaxies.  As stated from the cutscenes, the Ancients colonized more than one galaxy, and encountered the Shivans during the conquest of one of said galaxies.

Likely the Ancients had the heart of their empire in the galaxy the Terrans and Vasudans inhabit. After eliminating (or enslaving if Vasudan legends are to be believed) most races in their home galaxy, they moved on to others, and finally made the Shivans take note.  The destruction of the Ancients seems to have taken some time, likely they were in a fighting retreat until the very end.

Then again, another possibility is that the heart of the Ancient empire lay elsewhere, and that our galaxy was merely an outlying area for them.  That might explain why an outpost with data on the Lucifer survived (at least enough for the GTA to make use of the data).

[Aardwolf]

Well, it's kind of hard for me to think about them as having had an intergalactic empire, but it's backed by (even if not explicitly stated as) canon, so...

Odd though how fast the Shivans could have descended upon their homeworld.

[Droid803]

My interpretation is that they hold systems in multiple galaxies, but they only control a portion of each.
Subspace nodes doesn't necessarily connect to just systems within a single galaxy.

[Dark Hunter]

Well, it's kind of hard for me to think about them as having had an intergalactic empire, but it's backed by (even if not explicitly stated as) canon, so...

Odd though how fast the Shivans could have descended upon their homeworld.

I kind of agree. I always thought the Monologues were using hyperbole to just say "Our empire was vast and mighty lol". I think it's a given they had far more territory than the GTVA, but entire galaxies? That's stretching it.

The Shivans could have taken hundreds of years to reach the Ancient homeworld for all we know. The Ancients never said how long the war lasted, just that they got beaten very very badly.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

If I recall the cutscenes they colonized their galaxy before even discovering subspace.  It may be possible the Shivans only take notice of subspace activity. 

[Bob-san]

I get the impression that their holdings were extensive, but by no means an entire galaxy or large chunks of multiple galaxies. Having hundreds of systems (already a few times bigger than the GTVA at its peak) across multiple galaxies might be the most accurate.

Thee possibilities...
1) The Ancients colonized a large section of their galaxy. So large, in fact, that they'd have been hard-pressed to traverse from one side to the other.
2) The Ancients were a loose confederation that expanded over thousands of years; they lost contact with their far-reaching cousins until subspace was discovered. At that point, the Ancients had access to dozens of unexplored nodes, some linking back to their own colonies but most in unexplored space.
3) They were proud liars; they had access to a few populace solar systems in close proximity to each other. Instead of taking decades to traverse, the majority of their holdings took months or a decade at maximum to reach.

[MatthTheGeek]

If I recall the cutscenes they colonized their galaxy before even discovering subspace.  It may be possible the Shivans only take notice of subspace activity.

Now tell me technically how you can even go out of your home system without subspace. We're talking about thousands of years here, not millions or billions.

I'm totally for the "Our empire was vast and mighty lol" theory. Those Ancients cutscenes are full of events that are too unbelievable or retarded to be considered as true canon. I put the "When we conquered and colonized in galaxies" in the same box. We don't even have a single clue that traveling to another galaxy is possible in the FS universe anyway.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I'd say about fifty, sixty systems, about twice as large as the GTVA. Some of the systems under their control might well be in another galaxy.

[Gamma_Draconis]

"And we discovered subspace.  It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. 

Without subspace, the Ancients were probably confined to their own system. I'm pretty sure when they mention "thousands of years" it included their development from hunter-gatherers to a subspace farering race. And when they mention universe, they probably mean the capacity to expand anywhere rather than just areas that are clustered close enough for colonization.

[QuantumDelta]

Why is it so hard to imagine the Sathanus fleet is simply still, just the tip of the iceberg?

[MatthTheGeek]

Why is it so hard to imagine the Sathanus fleet is simply still, just the tip of the iceberg?

What does it have to do with this topic ?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I believe QD meant this:

Why is it so hard to imagine that the Sathanas fleet is just the tip of the iceberg?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Discovering subspace is in the paragraph after the initial expansion into their own galaxy.  They learned to travel faster and farther until there were no systems reachable then they discovered subspace which opened up the rest of their galaxy and others.  

[QuantumDelta]

Why is it so hard to imagine the Sathanus fleet is simply still, just the tip of the iceberg?

What does it have to do with this topic ?

Odd though how fast the Shivans could have descended upon their homeworld.

Simply; The Shivans have a track record of only deploying resources required to destroy a specie, not overkill a specie, and since the Ancients were such a huge chunk of empire, it's quite likely they saw things we never did.
They also never ever faced an equal opponent, never faced a losing battle, never fought a superior opponent, their 'arms race' was probably quite slow, as was their ability to shift tactically (not that GTVA is as fast as I would like, but certainly I imagine them being significantly better than an empire that spans multiple galaxies).

Fubar; I kinda agree but reachable is very vague, that could mean however many lightyears = their lifespan or more, or less, that could mean their local cluster, or their spiral arm, or their entire galaxy.
No way to really tell, but certainly I can't say you're wrong in the slightest.

[Bob-san]

Why is it so hard to imagine the Sathanus fleet is simply still, just the tip of the iceberg?

What does it have to do with this topic ?

Odd though how fast the Shivans could have descended upon their homeworld.

Simply; The Shivans have a track record of only deploying resources required to destroy a specie, not overkill a specie, and since the Ancients were such a huge chunk of empire, it's quite likely they saw things we never did.
They also never ever faced an equal opponent, never faced a losing battle, never fought a superior opponent, their 'arms race' was probably quite slow, as was their ability to shift tactically (not that GTVA is as fast as I would like, but certainly I imagine them being significantly better than an empire that spans multiple galaxies).

Fubar; I kinda agree but reachable is very vague, that could mean however many lightyears = their lifespan or more, or less, that could mean their local cluster, or their spiral arm, or their entire galaxy.
No way to really tell, but certainly I can't say you're wrong in the slightest.

Maybe their local cluster of systems; it's /plausible/ that we could start exploiting the Alpha Centauri system prior to the discovery of FTL drives. A multi-year round-trip would be difficult, but 4.22 ly isn't even leaving our backyard. Further, within 10 ly, there's Bernard's Star, Wolf 359, Lalande 21185, Sirius, Luyten 726-8, and Ross 154. Then there's also Espilon Eridani, which is pretty darn close to Luyten 726-8. The "hub and spokes" setup would let near-light travel work pretty darn well. Assuming that the Ancients were lucky, then maybe they had a dozen systems spanning several years of travel and were able to make a presence on several dozen bodies.

[QuantumDelta]

The thing is an 8 year round trip seems like a lot to us because it's 10% of our lifespan, if the Ancients lived for 300 years then it wouldn't seem like that much of a problem to them, if they lived 4 years then they would never ever consider it.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

All that assumes that the ancients didn't have some other way of going faster than light speed.  Something fast enough to span most of a galaxy but not fast enough to reach others. 

[Paladin327]

All that assumes that the ancients didn't have some other way of going faster than light speed.  Something fast enough to span most of a galaxy but not fast enough to reach others. 

right, for all we know, the ancients could have been able to accellerate their ships to .999 of the speed of light, but even with this, travelling long distance still takes a loooooooooooooooooong time. when they discovered subspace, they found that, "hey, the blue tunnel is a lot faster and we dont have to deal with the whole time dilation thingy"

it's also entirely possible they sent out sleeper ships full of colonists in suspended animation, which has been staple of science fiction for a long time. alll of this is possible as we only know when the ancient's empire died, not how long it actually lived

[Mikes]

right, for all we know, the ancients could have been able to accellerate their ships to .999 of the speed of light, but even with this, travelling long distance still takes a loooooooooooooooooong time.

Not for the crewmembers.... only for the people they leave on their homeplanet.

Relativistic theory is actually kinda neat inthat regard... one could even call it "space traveller friendly" ... physically anyways, psychologically it must be a ***** to know everyone you know will age faster than you or even die while you are in transit, if they journey is long enough.

On the other hand.... propably (emotionally) not all that different from what 14th century explorers had to deal with... (taking plagues, constant wars and low life expectancies in general into account) ... just a different scale in years and distance LOL