[Hades]

What else would the Pegasus be used for? And what else could be used for scouting?

[-Norbert-]

I think the Loki shouldn't be a scout.
In the FS1 era it was somewhere between an interceptor and a space superiority fighter. It was fast, manouverable and could carry quite a punch (Banshees), but didn't have all that much survivability, once they were targetable.
For FS2 it could be used as a scout, but not for the great war.

[Rodo]

Loki is a scout both in FS1 and in FS2 eras alright, it's light, fast and it doesn't carry an extensive amount of weapons.

[headdie]

as a ST era fighter it should be available as a late fighter tech recon, intercept fighter

[Hades]

I think the Loki shouldn't be a scout.
In the FS1 era it was somewhere between an interceptor and a space superiority fighter. It was fast, maneuverable and could carry quite a punch (Banshees), but didn't have all that much survivability, once they were target-able.
For FS2 it could be used as a scout, but not for the great war.

It is stated in canon that the Loki was a scout fighter, I can't exactly remember where though (I think it's one of the tech descriptions).

[-Norbert-]

Even if it's canon that doesn't make sense....
The Loki has more shields and armor than the Valkyrie and the same main weapon compatibility (minus Shield Breaker). How does that make the Loki a scout when the Valk is an interceptor?
At least in my book a scout would be faster, less sturdy than an interceptor and barely armed at all, but with plenty of fuel and sensors. And a top notch subspace drive, so it can get away from enemies without a fight.

Besides in the missions of Silent Threat the Loki was used as a shock weapon rather than a scout. Even after the stealth was cracked, they still used it as interceptor/superiority fighter. And if I have the choice I take "mission-canon" over "techroom-canon" anytime. Especially when the techroom or backstory information doesn't make much sense, like in this case.

I guess in HW1 the role of the Loki would be very straight forward - the Kushan stealth fighter. But as far as I remember there is no such thing in HW2.

[Hades]

Perhaps they only used the Loki because it was the only fighter they had an abundance of?

Though you'll have to live with some canon not making sense because Argon is only found in Sol.

[MatthTheGeek]

So, you can't include the Colossus?

Of course I can, and I will. It's gonna be very large, but you're likely to not have more than one ingame, and the maps I'll make will probably be much larger than vanilla HW2 maps.

Use the Demeter for FS1, Aenemoi for FS2

Good idea. BTW, I have made a quick refinery-like reskin for the Anemoi : . Looks good ?

Agreed, and I think it would be passable to use the Loki as a FS1 scout due to the Angel being mighty hideous. FS2 could use the Pegasus or something

No way, Angel is awesome, and is perfect as a scout given it's low combat effectiveness. The Loki will be used as a high-tech stealth interceptor in FS1 and recon (not stealth anymore) in FS2. Maybe I'll make a no-stealth light interceptor version if I throw in a NTF faction, but I'll see that later.

I guess in HW1 the role of the Loki would be very straight forward - the Kushan stealth fighter. But as far as I remember there is no such thing in HW2.

No such thing in vanilla HW2, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't be done with the engine. It's perfectly doable.


Anyway, lemmie show you how busy I was working for my exams this weekend [/irony] :

[headdie]

Use the Demeter for FS1, Aenemoi for FS2

Good idea. BTW, I have made a quick refinery-like reskin for the Anemoi : . Looks good ?

thumbs up here

[MatthTheGeek]

[Colonol Dekker]

I'm REALLY looking forward to getting a Hades in the FS1 era dooby doo.

[MatthTheGeek]

The Hades is likely to be a very-hard-to-build, Lucifer-counter ship. On the other hand, I think the Lucifer will be available without shields at first, and the shields will be a researchable upgrade and/or a buildable subsystem. The FS1-era Vasudans are gonna lack an anti-Lucifer ship though, or more precisely a ship with shields-piercing beams, any idea ?

[-Norbert-]

Maybe a researchable bomb that can pierce the shield and thus disable the subsystem that's creating it?
In terms of story that bomb is fitted with a jump-generator and right before impact on the shield it makes a short hop, coming out of subspace within the shield, thus circumventing the protection.

Or simply an early prototype of a beam that can be installed on a special Typhon, with less hittpoints and fewer other weapons, to reflect how unstable and unreliable the Typhons with beams are, due to compatibility problems between the beams and reactors mentioned in the Hatshepsut's Techroom describtion of FS2.

The process of retrofitting the older Typhon-class warships yielded vessels prone to system failures and reactor overloads.

[headdie]

The Hades is likely to be a very-hard-to-build, Lucifer-counter ship. On the other hand, I think the Lucifer will be available without shields at first, and the shields will be a researchable upgrade and/or a buildable subsystem. The FS1-era Vasudans are gonna lack an anti-Lucifer ship though, or more precisely a ship with shields-piercing beams, any idea ?

aside from the fact that beams are a fs2 feature.  Might I suggest a Typhon blob cannon upgrade or give the PVF Anubis kamikaze attack like they have in the game but which can overload the Lucifer's shields.

Maybe a researchable bomb that can pierce the shield and thus disable the subsystem that's creating it?
In terms of story that bomb is fitted with a jump-generator and right before impact on the shield it makes a short hop, coming out of subspace within the shield, thus circumventing the protection. (I know non canon but I think they leave the smallest plot holes)

Or simply an early prototype of a beam that can be installed on a special Typhon, with less hittpoints and fewer other weapons, to reflect how unstable and unreliable the Typhons with beams are, due to compatibility problems between the beams and reactors mentioned in the Hatshepsut's Techroom describtion of FS2.

The process of retrofitting the older Typhon-class warships yielded vessels prone to system failures and reactor overloads.

I had those ideas but then started thinking in terms of plot holes

1. for the bomb why does this bomb or its successor not exist in FS2
2. beams were supposed to be developed a considerable time after fs1 Beam weapons were invented in 2355

[-Norbert-]

1. for the bomb why does this bomb or its successor not exist in FS2

Simple. Because the Lucifer was a one-of-a-kind ship in FS1 and because of how hard it is to manufacture and maintain that bomb, only few have been build and are only given out in the right circumstance. Since in FS2 no capship with shields turned up, they didn't hand then out.

Now I guess someone will ask "how comes they don't just warp the bomb into the ships", but I thought a bit about that too. Maybe the bombs can manage a subspace-hop of only a few centimeter, just enough to get inside the shield, but not inside the ship. Or maybe it's impossible to open a portal in solid matter, or doing so would kina merge the armorplating with the bomb, peventing the bomb from exploding or somesuch.

2. beams were supposed to be developed a considerable time after fs1 Beam weapons were invented in 2355

Didn't the Hades have beams? I never played Silent Threat for FS1, only the FS2 adaption (and I mean the crappy one, not Reborn here) and there it has beams. I assume in the FS1 addon they had the "simulated beam" Shivan superlaser instead.
So the Wiki should probably read, since the GTVIs knowledge of how to build beamweapons was lost in the destruction of the Jotunheim and the Hades, the GTVA had to re-discover it, which they did in 2355.

[SpardaSon21]

2. beams were supposed to be developed a considerable time after fs1 Beam weapons were invented in 2355

Didn't the Hades have beams? I never played Silent Threat for FS1, only the FS2 adaption (and I mean the crappy one, not Reborn here) and there it has beams. I assume in the FS1 addon they had the "simulated beam" Shivan superlaser instead.
So the Wiki should probably read, since the GTVIs GTI's knowledge of how to build beamweapons was lost in the destruction of the Jotunheim and the Hades, the GTVA had to re-discover it, which they did in 2355.

Fixed that for you.

[MatthTheGeek]

I'd rather not go into ultra-special-subspace-bombs, rather something involving beam prototypes. Maybe a Sobek prototype ? It's said to be the first Zod ship designed with beams in mind, and is in development since the destruction of Vasuda Prime.

[Hades]

Design of the corvette class GVCv Sobek began in the dark days after the destruction of Vasuda Prime by the Shivans in the Great War. The Vasudan navy wanted a vessel that could single-handedly counter powerful Shivan cruisers and provide critical support to Vasudan destroyers in battles against Shivan capital ships. The Sobek class fills those requirements admirably. Bristling with almost two dozen turrets, these corvettes are a terror to all vessels of cruiser size and below, while presenting a dire threat even to ships far larger than themselves.

It does say that it was made after the destruction of Vasuda Prime but it does not say that the Sobek was, in fact, made with beams in mind.

[Mobius]

The Mentu was designed with beams in minds, hence the completely different shape. (The fact that its beams are only a mirage ingame is another matter.)

About beam weapon technology: are there any canon sources stating that Terrans and Vasudans had to rediscover beam technology? I think it's much more plausible to assume that they gathered sufficient info from the GTI, even if the Hades was lost in combat.

Bosch claimed the GTVA "buried" the GTI's discoveries, which means that they knew them. It's almost certainly a reference to the experiments on Shivan specimens, but IMHO it may be a reference to beam technology as well. Perhaps the GTVA knew how to build beam weapons but decided to wait a while after the GTI Rebellion to make the inception of beams look more "natural".

[-Norbert-]

Considering that they were expecting the Shivans to return any moment (at least for a while after the great war ended), that would be a rather stupid move.
I think it more likely that they had to at least fill in big gaps in the "beam-knowledge" even if they didn't have to start from scratch thanks to some GTI files.