[Flipside]

Oh, FFS....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jnuiLTovjxjwSwo415F9qITUTsZA

Fine if the Pixies choose to cancel it's their loss in the way of earnings, I was actually on Israels' side on this until they dragged up that bloody word again...

Why is it the moment someone does something a country doesn't like, they try to slide the word 'Terrorism' in there somewhere? I swear, if there were a plague of spiders, it would be described as Arachnoterrorism....

[karajorma]

BTW, IRONY BONUS.

Exodus 1947 was a ship that carried Jewish emigrants, that left France on July 11, 1947, with the intent of taking its passengers to Mandate Palestine

Following wide media coverage, the British Royal Navy seized the ship, and deported all its passengers back to Europe.

The boarding was challenged by the passengers (the ship was in international waters where the Royal Navy had no jurisdiction), and so the British soldiers used force. Two passengers and one of the crews, 1st mate William Bernstein, a U.S. sailor from San Francisco, died as a result of bludgeoning and several dozen others were injured before the ship was taken over.

The officer in charge of the operation, Lt. Col. Gregson, later gave a very frank assessment of the success of the storming of the ship, which, according to a secret minute, left up to 33 Jews, including four women, injured in the fighting. Sixty-eight Jews were held in custody to be put on trial for unruly behaviour. Only three soldiers were hurt. But it could have been a lot worse. Gregson later admitted that he had considered using tear gas against the immigrants. He concluded:

    "The Jew is liable to panic and 800-900 Jews fighting to get up a stairway to escape tear smoke could have produced a deplorable business." He added: "It is a very frightening thing to go into the hold full of yelling maniacs when outnumbered six or eight to one." Describing the assault, the officer wrote to his superiors: "After a very short pause, with a lot of yelling and female screams, every available weapon up to a biscuit and bulks of timber was hurled at the soldiers. They withstood it admirably and very stoically till the Jews assaulted and in the first rush several soldiers were downed with half a dozen Jews on top kicking and tearing ... No other troops could have done it as well and as humanely as these British ones did." He concluded: "It should be borne in mind that the guiding factor in most of the actions of the Jews is to gain the sympathy of the world press."

Security fears seemed justified after the Jews were removed when a large, homemade bomb with a timed fuse was found on one of the three ships. It was apparently rigged to detonate after the Jews had been removed, the cables indicate.

The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine also covered the events. Some of its members were even present at Haifa port when the emigrants were removed from their ship onto the deportation ships, and later commented that this strong image helped them press for an immediate solution for Jewish immigration and the question of Palestine.

The ship's ordeals were widely covered by international media, and caused the British government much public embarrassment, especially after the refugees were forced to disembark in Germany.

It is said that the events convinced the US government that the British mandate of Palestine was incapable of handling the Jewish refugees problem, and that a United Nations-brokered solution needed to be found. The US government then intensified its pressures on the British government to return its mandate to the UN, and the British in turn were willing to accept this. But this is dubious as the Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry Conference of July 31 1946, meeting in London, had already recommended a federal scheme for solving the Palestine problem known as Morrison-Grady Plan, a U.N. trusteeship over Palestine.

Further, on September 24 1946 the Counsel to the US President, Clark Clifford had written to him to warn that the Soviet Union wished to achieve complete economic, military and political domination in the Middle East. Toward this end, Clifford argued, the Soviet Union would encourage the emigration of Jews from Europe into Palestine and at the same time denounce British and American policies toward Palestine and inflame the Arabs against those policies. Also, on the eve of Yom Kippur, October 4 1946, President Truman had issued a statement indicating United States support for the creation of a "viable Jewish state.", and the British government had already announced on February 7 1947 that it would terminate its mandate for Palestine.

Does any of this sound familiar?

[iamzack]

Yeah, except the result of that was their very own country.

The recent incident didn't even earn Gaza candy bars.

[Turambar]

Arachnoterrorism....

Unlike regular terrorism, Arachnoterrorism actually sounds like it would be terrifying.

[Sandwich]

Which means when Israeli civilians kill or maim Palestinian civilians, they are actually Israeli combatants, right? And, as we've learned from Iraq and Palestine, you can't tell a civilian from a combatant. Since the US and Israel both use that as an excuse to kill thousands of civilians, I guess Palestinians can use the same excuse against Israelis.

Did I miss something? When have Israeli civvies been killing Palestinians?

If the situation you state exists, then yes, when an Israeli civvie picks up a weapon with intent and means to harm another person, they're fair game. Why do you think I'd classify things differently?

[General Battuta]

BTW, IRONY BONUS.

Wow, that's...huh.

[iamzack]

Then neither side is in the right. Honestly, they should both be sanctioned and blockaded and left to starve I guess. They're all terrorists on either side.

[Turambar]

Then neither side is in the right. Honestly, they should both be sanctioned and blockaded and left to starve I guess. They're all terrorists on either side.

Except that's not the case.  Israel are terrorists.  Palestinians want their home back.

[iamzack]

Well they're not getting it back. No western government is going to support a Muslim state over a Jewish one.

[Sandwich]

Then neither side is in the right. Honestly, they should both be sanctioned and blockaded and left to starve I guess. They're all terrorists on either side.

Except that's not the case.  Israel are terrorists.  Palestinians want their home back.

I'm so glad you're here to contribute such statements. You just seem to have a knack for getting right to the heart of a matter, breaking it down, and then portraying things in such a delicately depicted light that I can't help but be convinced that you're absolutely, truly off your friggin' rocker.

[iamzack]

Well you said Islam is evil a few months ago. He's a tit-for-tat kind of guy.

[Turambar]

Sorry if it stings Sandwich, but you got no right to be where you are.  You and your family are on stolen land, and you need to leave.

[Flipside]

I do wish you two would sort out which account you are going to post on, because this gets bloody confusing...

[iamzack]

We're on separate computers. Israel is just about the only thing that makes Turambar angry.

[Flipside]

The way I look at it, pretty much every race in the world is where it is because of 'Right of Conquest', the Romans pushed out the Celts, the Americans pushed out the Native Americans etc, it's an ongoing theme in history. History has never been famous for being 'Nice', particularly to the pushee, as opposed to the pusher.

Does any race have a 'Right' to be where it is beyond its ability to hang on to it, if all it took were bits of paper, why spend billions per year on defence budgets? And that's the crux of the matter, it's not about whether it should exist, that's looking at it from the wrong perspective, it's a question of how Israel, now it is established, interacts with the surrounding cultures, and how those cultures can be bought, if not into harmony, which I doubt, then at least to a less abrasive dislike of each other.

[Turambar]

I don't realistically expect Israel to pack up and skip town, but they could do with being less antagonistic.  

My big problem is that I try to think we've come a long way since the founding of America, and we should know better by now.

[iamzack]

Time (generations) and education (instead of propaganda).

I wonder if it would help if Israel admitted that "because god said so" is not a legitimate land claim.

[Dilmah G]

Sorry if it stings Sandwich, but you got no right to be where you are.  You and your family are on stolen land, and you need to leave.

Didn't you guys steal your land from native Americans?

[BloodEagle]

Does any race have a 'Right' to be where it is beyond its ability to hang on to it, if all it took were bits of paper, why spend billions per year on defence budgets? And that's the crux of the matter, it's not about whether it should exist, that's looking at it from the wrong perspective, it's a question of how Israel, now it is established, interacts with the surrounding cultures, and how those cultures can be bought, if not into harmony, which I doubt, then at least to a less abrasive dislike of each other.

Best typo, ever? 

[Flipside]

Missed that