Author Topic: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?  (Read 11757 times)

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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Actually, if this project lifts off, it might be better not to use old voice-acting. It would impose hard limits on fredders and there wouldn't be improved dialogue. New voice-acting would be total pain in the ass though.
Yeah, skip voice-acting.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Not that I'm saying that anyone shouldn't undertake a project like this, if that's what they want, but I do feel like there's sort of a fundamental difference between this idea and what ST:R did.  The original Silent Threat is just about universally acknowledged as a massive dud, an interesting concept handicapped by nonexistent plot progression and poor mission design.  The ST:R team ran with this concept and produced something beyond top-notch, and I think most of us would happily overwrite the retail campaign with it in our own personal canons.  In contrast, though there are flaws in the retail FS1 and FS2 campaigns, they were pretty damn awesome games from the very beginning (otherwise, none of us would be here in the first place).  Though I don't know that I'd be interested in playing a tweaked FS2 campaign personally, more power to you if you enjoy the "what-if" sort of thing.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Well just the more underwhelming missions, like High Noon and that, I'd agree with remakes on for sure. If someone could make something good out of the rest of the campaign, well then I don't see why not.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Actually, if this project lifts off, it might be better not to use old voice-acting. It would impose hard limits on fredders and there wouldn't be improved dialogue. New voice-acting would be total pain in the ass though.
Yeah, skip voice-acting.

I actually think we should use some of the voice acting again, mostly for the truly memorable lines in the campaign.  We can always use anything Bosch says because a lot of those lines are very good.

Places I'd (just opinion mostly) keep the VA:
 - Place of the Chariots
 - The Roman's Blunder
 - The Great Hunt (heh, QD and I were talking about this general are of the campaign.  Anyone else think it might work better if Mystery of the Trinity and the Great Hunt were combined, mission wise?)
 - The SOC loops.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
No, no, I like them separate. Recon sorties take place between the two missions, as stated in the briefings, and they need to get Security Council clearance or something to process the two corvettes through to the nebula.

 
Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Which so long as we're dropping the VA wouldn't be a problem to re-write to make sense.
The point would be a better flowing campaign instead of two consecutive fifteen minute missions of ultimate boredom interspersed with ~30 seconds of combat here and there, and the droll nature of the trinity missions conclusion, since without effecting canon too much you could have the ravana vapourise the trinity alone if you wanted, or still the power to nuke the trinity and the lysander or actium.

Missions I felt need reworking;

Surrender Belasarius (So, the entire reason this mission exists is to show off beams...yeay).
Mystery of the Trinity (I spend almost all of this mission in x8 compression these days).
The Great Hunt (see above).
Slaying Ravana (falling asleep at the wheel and flying into the Ravana).
The Sixth Wonder (very, very underwhelming mission).
Rebel's and Renegades (minor).
Love the Treason (minor).
But hate the traitor (maybe?).
Battle of the wilderness (similar to great hunt/mystery of the trinity).
A game of TAG (minor maybe?).
Proving Grounds (yeay for duplicated argonautica-lite).
The King's Gambit (less Mjolnir overload, more player work? maybe? not so self completing on insane?)
The Sicilian defence (how tragic is this mission?).
The Fog of War (distanceslol).
Speaking in Tongues (less gaps in combat plix?)
High Noon (blows).
Argonautica (probably the better of the nebula missions but still, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much dead time).
Exodus (I ACTUALLY fell asleep having forgotten about the last two waves in my playthrough in this mission, honestly, there's a TWO MINUTE gap between waves with no dialogue, PUHLEEZE).
Their Finest Hour (should be done properly).
CoTTII (could use a bit of work to make it less of a treb turkey shoot fest).
Apocalypse (this mission gets on my nerves a bit in regards to a) the second ending, nothing actually changes no matter what if you stay behind, no one extra makes it through.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Fair enough. If you do decide to get that list underway however, I'd like dibs on High Noon. ;)

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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Yes, yes, I'll drop the electro-rock soundtrack if I must.
Yeah, keeping retail musics is better IMHO.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Yeah.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
I might like to redo The Sixth Wonder, since it seems simple enough.

Defend station till Colly shows up.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Yeah, giving the attack more structure (perhaps getting rid of most of this 'human wave' nonsense?) and the Hawkwood or whatever it was really going at it before the Colly jumps in could be enough to do the trick. :v: were justified in how they did the mission though, I thought it was pretty cool the first time I played it back in 2000 as a 6 year old on my Windows 98. :D


 
Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
I have recently been replaying the FS2 campaign, and I feel it could be improved.  Having played some TIE Fighter as well, I noticed that the Freespace 2 campaign is rather lacking at times when it comes to Bonus objectives.  Here is a summary of what I believe we should change or expand.



CAMPAIGN CHANGES

One:  Include AI & SCP improvements, such as AI using Trebuchets appropriately.

Two:  Add more opportunities for the player to make a difference in the campaign, such as ships surviving a battle and appearing later on, getting different loadouts if conveys are destroyed/saved, and so on.  Stuff like what was done with the mission about damaging the Sathanas is really cool in my opinion.

Three:  Make some battles larger in scale if appropriate, since the engine can support more stuff.

Four:  Additional cinematic flair where possible.

Five:  Rebalancing to be more canonical and to take AI changes into account.
ex: Correction of the Mjolnir to have missiles, like in the briefing, AI pilots using Trebuchets, Colossus having all turrets.  (I hear that it is missing some.), improve the Artemis D.H, Tag-C, Artemis Overclock, Nahema underclock, Bakha overclock, Mentu beams, Check-Hull flags for turrets, Bahka-Helios secondaries, ect.

Six:  Restoration of content & ideas that Volition didn't finish, such as Colossus and the waypoints in High Noon IIRC.



MISSION CHANGES


Surrender, Belsaurius!
An extra dose of cinema would be good.  Placing the Psamtik and Belisaurius further away from the player's location and having them exchange broadsides should be good at demonstrating beams.  The only problem is the boredom factor for veterans, and that getting between the two ships is a good lesson to rookies about the dangers of being in the crossfire.  Perhaps a little bit of of show and tell would be good.   A small ship or fighter from the GTVA could get caught in a second exchange of firepower, getting destroyed while screaming an appropriate epitaph.  After the Belisaurius gets blown away, an NTF Fenris can come onto the scene, so the player can get involved and learn about close encounters with beams with minimal danger, with the Fenris using the Slashing Beam once on the player.


Place of Chariots
My opinion here is more along the lines of what I perceive to be a more realistic approach to the containers.  That is, I think that Command would be interested in checking out the contents of the containers since they might have information, supplies, and so on.  The fact that they are shielded ought to be a big clue about their importance.  Perhaps a NTF Fenris with some fighters could warp in to destroy or protect the containers.  Maybe the Iceni could be scanned as an bonus objective, too.  (Since it is carrying ETAK)


Lion at the Door
Preservation and scanning of the Shivan cargo would be a good bonus objective, I think.  It is likely that Command would be interested in knowing how Shivan technology and methodology has changed, and nothing is better for that than looking at their supplies.


Mystery of the Trinity
While I don't mind surprises, it seems odd to me that the Trinity is destroyed so easily and without a chance to ensure the survival of the ships you are supposed to protect.  I think adding a Secondary objective of protecting the Discovery would be good, and having the actual repair and survival of the Trinity to be a good Bonus objective.  In short:


1) Survival & Escape of the "Discovery" as an Secondary Objective.
2) Repair & Escape of Trinity as an Bonus Objective.
3) Rebalanced enemy fighter waves, if Trinity becomes an Bonus Objective.
4) It would be nice to have some sort of reward for Trinity surviving.  Maybe an extra SOC mission later on?


The Great Hunt
An fairly good mission already, but I think it could use some bonus objectives.

1)  Scan the Ravana as an Bonus Objective, which makes the Ravana 10% damaged in the next mission?
2)  Make it possible for both corvettes to survive, with them appearing in "Slaying the Ravana", as a nifty bonus for the player.  They ought to retain some damage to reflect the battle in progress.

 

Offline FelixJim

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
One:  Include AI & SCP improvements, such as AI using Trebuchets appropriately.
I believe this was implemented, until it was realised just how much it effected gameplay.
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Offline Timerlane

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
For the most part, I think removing Trebs from the default loadouts of most of the offending Shivan fighters(Mara, Basilisk, and Aeshma) by TBM could fix that, as well as restricting the player(and wingmen) from having access to them, if absolutely necessary.

As long as a campaign is made with "AI can throw Trebs around" in mind, I'm sure it can work.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
I did a few things like this with the main campaign myself, way back in the day. There are a number of missions, such as Slaying Ravana and The King's Gambit, with ships that are in the mission but almost never show up under normal circumstances. I mainly wanted to just have these unused ships appear and to integrate them into the mission in some way. I also added in extra enemy wings or enabled beams in some missions to make them more action-packed, and fixed other missions with messed up debriefing music.

For a project like this, instead of making major changes to the mission plots and events (which would mean removing the voices), I would like to see more in the way of smaller, gameplay-related changes. Things like Fury's AI, rapid fire turrets, more fighters in some missions, better ship/weapon balancing and so on would improve the campaign a lot. Although there may be some limited scope for adding events to the missions by repurposing voice files from other missions, especially the multiplayer ones.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
I think the player wing needs a dedicated fighter escort in Slaying Ravana.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
I did a few things like this with the main campaign myself, way back in the day. There are a number of missions, such as Slaying Ravana and The King's Gambit, with ships that are in the mission but almost never show up under normal circumstances. I mainly wanted to just have these unused ships appear and to integrate them into the mission in some way. I also added in extra enemy wings or enabled beams in some missions to make them more action-packed, and fixed other missions with messed up debriefing music.

For a project like this, instead of making major changes to the mission plots and events (which would mean removing the voices), I would like to see more in the way of smaller, gameplay-related changes. Things like Fury's AI, rapid fire turrets, more fighters in some missions, better ship/weapon balancing and so on would improve the campaign a lot. Although there may be some limited scope for adding events to the missions by repurposing voice files from other missions, especially the multiplayer ones.

What he said. Personally, I just would not be interested in a version of retail that dumped VA so that whoever revamped the missions could do whatever they want. Retail is retail for a reason. Don't mess with the story, don't mess with the VA, much of it is too good.

Making the missions in need better though, I'm all for that. Better AI would be welcome, of course the whole campaign would need to be re-balanced.
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Offline Fury

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Personally I still favor ST:R approach to this. Not being limited by existing voice acting gives much more freedom to make that much better missions from ground-up. The campaign would have to be voice-acted for certain, but the missions would definitely be better than if they had been restricted by old voice acting.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Err, keep in mind that ST:R overhauled a campaign that was only one-third the size of FS2 (or half the size, if you go by the end result).  And it still took us six years. :nervous:

 

Offline Fury

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Re: Updated Freespace 2 Main Campaign?
Well, 17 missions of BP2 R1 only took roughly a year to fred. So that'd be about two years for FS2 campaign. Of course, so much depends on who is fredding and how much time they have to fred. Voice-acting is something that takes significantly longer to accomplish. But nothing prevents doing voice-acting after campaign release. I think the community has gained enough experience to have voice-acting of FS2 sized campaign done in about three years. Completing fredding and voice-acting would take approximately five years.

It does take long time to get voice-acting done. But personally I prefer that over to being restricted by existing voice-acting. If followed through with quality fredding and voice-acting, the end result would be more than worth the trouble.

Still, it's just my opinion.