Author Topic: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday  (Read 7753 times)

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Offline headdie

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
:lol:

My cats have got about 50% of the idea of hunting mice, they've got as far as finding and catching, however, they struggle with 'killing', instead they prefer 'bringing it into the house, playing with it whilst still alive and accidentally allowing it to escape'. Thus, I now have a mouse somewhere under the radiator in the hall :/

Anyway, on topic, it's hard to give an opinion, but it does seem like one of those tricky situations, it's strange how people will argue for hours over the interpretation of the First Amendment, and yet the Second is like some unshakable, undebatable constant?

not that theres a gun control bone in my body, i always make the point that while the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms, it doesn't at all specify the kind of arms you can bear. for all we know it was some law forbidding amputation as a form of capital punishment. but seriously their idea of "arms" were smooth bore muskets, blunderbusses, and inaccurate single shot pistols. it didn't say anything about repeating rifles, six shooters, Thompson sub machine guns, semi-auto 9mm with 20 round clips, AK forty ****ing sevens, Uzis, mag 10s, .50 caliber machine guns, gau-8s, nuclear artillery or lady gaga. the line has to be drawn somewhere.

the purpose of the second amendment, was to allow for legitimate militias to act as an interim military and police force until a point where the government could establish police forces and an actual military. and it was a good policy up till the point where the frontier was used up. that would have been a good time to repeal the amendment. it doesn't make a whole lot of since for people who live in the city to own firearms, unless its full of criminals who also have them. you also had (and still have) those who live in more rural locations, where its cheaper and often better to go hunting than it is to buy meat. i dint want to take guns away from people who use them to feed their families (i have at least 10 pounds of venison in the freezer and it makes damn good chili).

id simply pass a law to ban antipersonnel weapons, namely handguns. id still allow hunting rifles, shotguns, and the like, nothing that would conveniently fit in oversized pants worn at the knee. of course certain groups would probably take offense to such a law. banning guns out right would seriously piss off those rural people, who conveniently seem to gather, collect and sell any raw materials that the urbanites among you need to build their cities. the gravel pit my in-laws run makes the gravel for concrete used in this part of the state. guns certainly make their jobs easier, so they don't have to kill the porcupines that chew on the hydraulic lines on the machines with their bare hands. or (and this is my favorite option), people can stop *****ing about guns, and accept the small amount of death they cause.
Except that it doesn't say anything about only being relevant unless and until there is an organized army.  It says that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.  What is implicit in that statement is that they would be around to be wielded against the leadership(implicitly Congress and The President) if they begin to behave as England had.

so why did no one try and shot bush then
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
:lol:

My cats have got about 50% of the idea of hunting mice, they've got as far as finding and catching, however, they struggle with 'killing', instead they prefer 'bringing it into the house, playing with it whilst still alive and accidentally allowing it to escape'. Thus, I now have a mouse somewhere under the radiator in the hall :/

Anyway, on topic, it's hard to give an opinion, but it does seem like one of those tricky situations, it's strange how people will argue for hours over the interpretation of the First Amendment, and yet the Second is like some unshakable, undebatable constant?

not that theres a gun control bone in my body, i always make the point that while the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms, it doesn't at all specify the kind of arms you can bear. for all we know it was some law forbidding amputation as a form of capital punishment. but seriously their idea of "arms" were smooth bore muskets, blunderbusses, and inaccurate single shot pistols. it didn't say anything about repeating rifles, six shooters, Thompson sub machine guns, semi-auto 9mm with 20 round clips, AK forty ****ing sevens, Uzis, mag 10s, .50 caliber machine guns, gau-8s, nuclear artillery or lady gaga. the line has to be drawn somewhere.

the purpose of the second amendment, was to allow for legitimate militias to act as an interim military and police force until a point where the government could establish police forces and an actual military. and it was a good policy up till the point where the frontier was used up. that would have been a good time to repeal the amendment. it doesn't make a whole lot of since for people who live in the city to own firearms, unless its full of criminals who also have them. you also had (and still have) those who live in more rural locations, where its cheaper and often better to go hunting than it is to buy meat. i dint want to take guns away from people who use them to feed their families (i have at least 10 pounds of venison in the freezer and it makes damn good chili).

id simply pass a law to ban antipersonnel weapons, namely handguns. id still allow hunting rifles, shotguns, and the like, nothing that would conveniently fit in oversized pants worn at the knee. of course certain groups would probably take offense to such a law. banning guns out right would seriously piss off those rural people, who conveniently seem to gather, collect and sell any raw materials that the urbanites among you need to build their cities. the gravel pit my in-laws run makes the gravel for concrete used in this part of the state. guns certainly make their jobs easier, so they don't have to kill the porcupines that chew on the hydraulic lines on the machines with their bare hands. or (and this is my favorite option), people can stop *****ing about guns, and accept the small amount of death they cause.
Except that it doesn't say anything about only being relevant unless and until there is an organized army.  It says that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.  What is implicit in that statement is that they would be around to be wielded against the leadership(implicitly Congress and The President) if they begin to behave as England had.

i think thats no longer possible. the government would pewn our asses with the weapons they are allowed to wield while our single shot rifles and pistols would do little should the government go sour. especially if they decide to nuke us. though it makes little since to annihilate your own populace. humans are insane enough to come up with a reason for anything though. even with the period weapons the government still had access to cannon, ships, horses, etc that the citizenry could not afford. so even then the government would have had a tactical advantage in any uprising. though though the amendment may have been merely symbolic in nature to show the people had control.

while i kinda like the idea that the right to bear arms was to protect us from our own government, i view that more as a modern interpretation of the amendment rather than its original purpose. the very fact that they mention militia makes me think the purpose of the amendment was to provide an interim police force. perhaps these militias were meant to be the only police force in the us. none the less the amendment was sufficiently vague so as to confuse people for a few hundred years.

but for fun heres the list of reasons off of wikipedia why people wanted guns:
    * deterring undemocratic government;
    * repelling invasion;
    * suppressing insurrection;
    * facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
    * participating in law enforcement;
    * enabling the people to organize a militia system,
    * slave control in slave states.

you not that both ideas are on the list :lol:


so why did no one try and shot bush then

sometimes i ask the same question about the current administration.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 05:10:04 am by Nuke »
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Quote
    * slave control in slave states.
:lol:

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
I thought you use sawn-off shotguns, kill each others ex-girlfriends, and spark a North-England wide manhunt involving an RAF Tornado?
Hey man we only did that once... Err, twice... This year... :nervous:

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
sawing off a shotgun just ruins it. and you wonder why you gangstas cant hit a duck at a hundred yards.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Hear hear, having a gun might make you a gangsta where you live, but here it means you're aristocracy.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday

i think thats no longer possible. the government would pewn our asses with the weapons they are allowed to wield while our single shot rifles and pistols would do little should the government go sour.

That is, of course, the argument that said we should have no problem dealing with Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq. :) Technical superiority matters a lot less than you'd think in guerrilla warfare.



 
Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
All it does is allow more options for personal defence.  A criminal that would use a gun during a robbery or other crime would get one illegally anyway.

Except that a criminal who makes money trough robberry most likely can not afford it.

(Or I do not have an good understanding on the prices of handguns).

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Bloke in my year bought a handgun (said it was a Beretta M9, but I severely doubt it and cannot verify as I haven't seen it up close) for $400, I think, going halves with a mate. Assuming a gang could pitch in for a gat, it suddenly doesn't seem so expensive.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Dilmah, bringing a gun into your lifestyle really does not sound like a good idea.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
 :lol:

Yeah, I know, I was only kidding. :D

 
Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Assuming a gang could pitch in for a gat, it suddenly doesn't seem so expensive.

They'd also need a non-gangster to buy the gun, unless at least one of them has no criminal record.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Oh, they bought the gat off an out of school associate of theirs.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Indeed, getting a legal handgun in Australia is bloody difficult. Note that even though illegal guns are available, we have a tiny fraction of the guncrime in the US. In fact, I think even the ammo is protected, so they might have a hard timie even keeping their gun dangerous.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 10:10:44 pm by Black Wolf »
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Yeah, I don't think they got any ammunition. :P

 

Offline mxlm

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
It says that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.

That's not all it says, and I sort of doubt the other words are there just because they look good.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Quote
Except that it doesn't say anything about only being relevant unless and until there is an organized army.  It says that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.  What is implicit in that statement is that they would be around to be wielded against the leadership(implicitly Congress and The President) if they begin to behave as England had.


9mm handgun << m1 abrams tank.  I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of getting mowed down.


The big difference between now and then is back then everyone was restricted to using the same kind of single shot musket. Today the military has tanks, machine guns, assault rifles, grenade launchers, mortors, rockets, bunker busters, fighters, bombers, artillery, hand grenades, mines, lazers, smart bombs, and probably a few other things I missed. While gangs have automatic weapons, what do we have? Nothing that can stand up to that.


Quote
That is, of course, the argument that said we should have no problem dealing with Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq. Technical superiority matters a lot less than you'd think in guerrilla warfare.

Yes, and you know what happened to the vietcong? Most of the time they were totally slaughtered.


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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
And what happened to the US in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan?  They were forced to leave in shame.

Irregular warfare is hardly about technological inferiority or superiority.  Resourcefulness and tactics play a major role, but what wins or loses a war these days is morale.  All one side needs to do is convince the civilian noncombatants (either in the occupied country or on the homefront) that the other side is the real bad guy, or that they have no hope of achieving meaningful victory.  Once the civilians turn on the other side, it may as well be over.  Americans never sympathized with the Vietcong or al-Qaeda, but watching soldiers being brought home in boxes with no real progress against what seems to be an immortal insurgency will do plenty to dry up support for the war.

And yes, the government does have much more advanced and powerful weapons than the average citizen, but--
OH HAI FBI THIS IS A DISCUSSION AND DEBATE ABOUT INSURGENCIES AND IRREGULAR WARFARE PLEASE MOVE ALONG KTHXBAI
--but you underestimate people's resourcefulness in desperate times.  AQI doesn't have a regular army, but they still manage to kill US soldiers just fine.  Even back in the 1700s, Americans hardly ever faced the British in open fields to fight, because when they did, they always lost. 

When you're desperate to win a war, just about any tactic or strategy becomes a viable option. 
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Even back in the 1700s, Americans hardly ever faced the British in open fields to fight, because when they did, they always lost. 

This is a damnable lie and may everyone who died in the Continental Army haunt you.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Chicago to allow handguns as of Monday
Zombie Washington eeeaatttt brraaiinnn...Zombie Washington..not know where Zombie Washington going with this...Zombie Washington need ride home.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!