[General Battuta]

Yeah, definitely disagree. I don't think that design is remotely realistic. They're not building a suit of steel armor that covers an entire human being at a homogeneous thickness.

[Scotty]

Yes I still disagree.  For one, you're assuming that the bullet strikes the armor at and only at the exact angle which would penetrate it.  That's partially why German tanks were so damned hard to kill in WWII.  They used sloping armor, so that shots that would have penetrated if it were just a slab of steel were deflected.

You could easily cut that figure to 10% if you used sloping armor and intelligent design of where hits are most likely.

[General Battuta]

Or modern composite design a la actual infantry body armor. Mission kills are fine. They're trying to create better infantrymen here, not bulletproof juggernaughts.

The advantage to powered armor is preventing you from getting shot in the first place, not allowing you to tank it.

[Flipside]

Yup, armour that could take a hit or two, or, as NGT stated earlier, maybe a frag grenade nearby is perfectly acceptable, as opposed to a 'stand up and fight' machine, however, it should also be noted that tanks are designed mostly to face towards an enemy, that's why the armour thickness differs all over the body, any kind of footsoldier could be attacked from any side and any angle, so sloping armour won't be as effective as on tanks.

That said, there is no way on Earth that power-suits would be easier to maintain or build than a jeep, at least not for a good, long time. The simple number of sensitive input devices on such a suit would require constant calibration. That's not neccesarily a bad thing for the benefits, but it does also mean, remembering we are dealing with a real Army here, not an 'ideal army', that they would probably be relegated to the roles of logistics or special ops.

[headdie]

No, the figure is calculated with the following numbers: average surface area of human male ~ 2 m^2.
Required steel thickness to stop bullets and shrapnel (I took this from BMP-1: 6-33 mm) and used a rough number of 20 millimetres.

Thus required volume is, 2 m^2 * 0.02 m ~ 0.04 m^3
Density of steel: 7800 kg/m^3 -> Total mass = 0.04 m^3 * 7800kg/m^3 ~ 312 kg

Does anyone disagree now?

The reason I'm using steel is twofold. First, price and manufacturing easiness. The other thing is that bullet proof vest and similar suits of armor don't prevent mission kills. Yes you stay alive but you still need to see the doctor, pronto! The only way to be sure is to use a material that doesn't transmit any shock to the person who wears it. Bullet proof vest only absorbs the lethal amount of energy from a bullet, but body still absorbs the rest of the energy.

So if such light weight armor is used then one still needs to crawl and take cover with that suit on like the rest of the troops. And my personal experience says that the less you have stuff with you when you start to crawl, the easier it gets.

or you can just accept that some one some where will figure out how to penetrate your armour, your best bet is to keep it cheep and mobile while being able to protect up to 5.56 or 7.62x39 at medium range.

I notice you assume that only 1 material will be used.  Most modern armour designs use a mix of Kevlar and ceramic/metal plates for the core of the armour with the Kevlar absorbing the kinetic energy and the plate bringing the projectile to a stop.  In a power suit a couple of extra mm in either would have little effect in mobility especially when compared to that solder without the assistance but it would have a noticeable effect on protection

Also what flavour of 7.62 are you talking about? we talking 7.62x39 as fired by AK-47 with an energy of 2,010 J or 7.62x51 at 3,504 J as fired by many light machine guns and sniper rifles

Lastly did you factor range in your calculation?  a bullet fired at 10 meters has significantly more kinetic energy that the same round fired from 100 meters

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Again the extra carrying capacity could be used to prevent the solider from ever being shot at.  Personal UAV's that detect the enemy before he can attack and alert to the enemy position could be carried.  They are getting small enough.  A good (and intelligent) offense is the best defense.  Take them out before you are even in range.  Not practical in urban environments but then again neither are the suits.  Other robotic methods are being developed for that purpose.  

[General Battuta]

Again the extra carrying capacity could be used to prevent the solider from ever being shot at.  Personal UAV's that detect the enemy before he can attack and alert to the enemy position could be carried.  They are getting small enough.  A good (and intelligent) offense is the best defense.  Take them out before you are even in range.  Not practical in urban environments but then again neither are the suits.  Other robotic methods are being developed for that purpose.  

Aye, concurred.

[headdie]

Again the extra carrying capacity could be used to prevent the solider from ever being shot at.  Personal UAV's that detect the enemy before he can attack and alert to the enemy position could be carried.  They are getting small enough.  A good (and intelligent) offense is the best defense.  Take them out before you are even in range.  Not practical in urban environments but then again neither are the suits.  Other robotic methods are being developed for that purpose. 

that's the other aspect sticking heavy thermal imaging and HUD wouldn't be difficult, I'm thinking if the HUD can be tied into the feeds from UAV/UCAV operating in the area to provide a direct visual overview when needed

[Dilmah G]

That'd be cool, as long as it isn't plagued by the issues that future force warrior or whatever the Army's "hey, let's do GRAW for real" project was called. A heads up display is cool when it doesn't lag for minutes on end. I'd just like to see this armour working effectively on the battlefield before we try and put any toys on it.

What I really would like to see is a detachable storage compartment. Who needs a pack when you can just stuff it in the suit and take it off before the contact's initiated. But I guess that brings up the problem of what the section does if they come into contact with an enemy force while wearing their full gear.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

They have vehicles in development now that will follow squads and carry gear as well.  So the unnecessary stuff for combat like extra food, water, tents, etc can just follow a designated distance behind. 

[Scourge of Ages]

What I really would like to see is a detachable storage compartment. Who needs a pack when you can just stuff it in the suit and take it off before the contact's initiated. But I guess that brings up the problem of what the section does if they come into contact with an enemy force while wearing their full gear.

Perhaps some sort of "quick-eject" button that peels the suit away from the soldier in half a second so he can move freely, lightly, and most importantly, quickly into cover or out of immediate harm's way.

[Flaser]

What I really would like to see is a detachable storage compartment. Who needs a pack when you can just stuff it in the suit and take it off before the contact's initiated. But I guess that brings up the problem of what the section does if they come into contact with an enemy force while wearing their full gear.

Perhaps some sort of "quick-eject" button that peels the suit away from the soldier in half a second so he can move freely, lightly, and most importantly, quickly into cover or out of immediate harm's way.

Actually most designs under testing today have this feature already. Taking them off is no more difficult than taking off ski skids or a normal backpack.

@Flipside: you're assuming an all-enclosure suit, that mimics *all* the movements of the user. These are not and they don't. The number of sensors and joints could be a whole magnitude less then what you envision. Also the sensors are not as finicky as you imagine them to be, IMHO most of them would be hall-effect and watch the displacement of specific parts - ergo something that can be *very* sturdy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE

[NGTM-1R]

that's the other aspect sticking heavy thermal imaging and HUD wouldn't be difficult, I'm thinking if the HUD can be tied into the feeds from UAV/UCAV operating in the area to provide a direct visual overview when needed

Even using a modern glance system, complex HUD is probably going to remain beyond powered exoskeletons or the like. There are just too many things to alter and not enough controls to do it with.

[Dilmah G]

They have vehicles in development now that will follow squads and carry gear as well.  So the unnecessary stuff for combat like extra food, water, tents, etc can just follow a designated distance behind. 

That'd be a good thing when operating in fairly flat terrain, I think. For everywhere else, people will probably have to lug their gear around the old fashioned way.

[General Battuta]

They have vehicles in development now that will follow squads and carry gear as well.  So the unnecessary stuff for combat like extra food, water, tents, etc can just follow a designated distance behind. 

That'd be a good thing when operating in fairly flat terrain, I think. For everywhere else, people will probably have to lug their gear around the old fashioned way.

Nope. One of the mule bots in development is four-legged and based on a mountain goat. Really remarkable piece of kit.

[Dilmah G]

Seriously? I thought MULEs were these babies?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Yea but they have other versions.  Some for urban use that can climb stairs and extract wounded, some that are like the ones in the pictures, some for underwater use, and probably whatever you can imagine. 

[redsniper]

Come on, everyone remembers that dog thing, right?

[Ghostavo]

For reference.

If only they managed to make it run silently.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I thought you were talking about this: