Poll

What do you think about the subject?

I wholeheartedly agree. More Terran factions would have ensured a deeper and meaningful plot.
I agree, but only partially. At least one alien species is necessary to consider FreeSpace a true space shooter
I don't agree. I think more Terran opponents, however, may have raised the overall quality of FreeSpace.
I don't agree. Things are fine as they are, and I can't think of any Terran faction which may have replaced the Vasudans and/or the Shivans.
I don't agree. More Alien species would have been a great idea.
Snuffleupagus. Sincerely indifferent to the topic, as I put hostile Terran factions and alien species to the same level.

Author Topic: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?  (Read 8688 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Not to mention you've just committed a war crime that will get you a long prison sentence. If not a firing squad.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
The pilot, at that point, has no idea if Snipes will be coming back, and has no idea if the data collection was successful.  You have recieved no directive to break cover, which usually means stay undercover until they need you again.

But, that's not really the point.  You fail if you blow it up, so you don't.  *Shrug*

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Yeah to be honest I think the safety of those innocent civilians probably comes before your mission.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
I was only obeying orders, eh? :p


It's worth pointing out that even if you do blow up the transport the other ships still turn on you. So you could simply claim you suspected your cover was blown anyway. Since all the pilots in your wing are going to be dead or still in the NTF at the end of the mission, who is going to tell you differently?
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
I was only obeying orders, eh? :p

Indeed.

It's worth pointing out that even if you do blow up the transport the other ships still turn on you. So you could simply claim you suspected your cover was blown anyway. Since all the pilots in your wing are going to be dead or still in the NTF at the end of the mission, who is going to tell you differently?

However, the player doesn't have definitive proof the other ships will turn on him/her until he/she has played the mission at least once.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say blowing up the transport is a great idea, just that the player is kind of uncertain of the cover situation.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Anyone have qualms about killing the "Witnesses" in the first two missions of Silent Threat? I think that idea was uber kewl and really showed the darker side of the GTI.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Anyone have qualms about killing the "Witnesses" in the first two missions of Silent Threat? I think that idea was uber kewl and really showed the darker side of the GTI.
I hated that, felt like such a waste of military resources and pilots
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Anyone have qualms about killing the "Witnesses" in the first two missions of Silent Threat? I think that idea was uber kewl and really showed the darker side of the GTI.

Only in hindsight, with knowledge that the Hades would have completely changed the dynamic of fighting the Shivans, and then not very much. Neither the Terrans nor the Vasudans have the ability to defeat remaining Shivan forces on their own, much less while fighting with each other. It's ugly, but trading lives for the survival of the species is essentially what fighting Shivans is. This is just more direct about it.

I was only obeying orders, eh? :p

To be honest, you could easily blame it on your wingmates. They're all about to die anyways in the context of the mission, so why it fails I don't know.

Also for some reason I blew up the transport and successfully progressed to the next mission right away at least once.
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Offline TopAce

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
You can progress with the campaign, no matter the transport's fate.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Huh.  I got a debrief saying something about war crimes and that I was going to get court martialed in a bit.

Then again, I might be wrong since I haven't blown it up in quite some time.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
You can blow it up and then exit the loop.
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Offline Lucika

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
In ...but Hate the Traitor, I instantly blew the transport up after I've got the order. Considering the fact that I am totally alone, undercover, knowing nothing about my "fellow pilots" plans, I am helpless to reach Command and I cannot warp out, I was sure that I have to keep my cover and keep on going with the NTF as long as I can. After I killed the transport, they have obviously turned on me but I managed to survive. Guess my surprise when I was sentenced to court martial at the end of the mission.

I mean, I was supposed to say "**** you NTF bastards", then single-handedly kill 5 enemy fighters (which is only simple in FreeSpace context), then... err... wait?! Wait until Command finds me somehow and picks me up, hoping that they don't shoot me down on the way? How could I even identify myself after Snipes was gone?!

I have always considered that mission illogical (and yes, this happened in retail).

As for the original topic, I think that it is an integral part to the FreeSpace story arc that our opponents are 'different' than us. The Shivans carry the mystery, the hidden agenda, the danger, the unknown, and most importantly, an adversary whose methods and motives are totally unknown to us. As for the Vasudans, don't forget that the whole war started based on our cultural differences and that was what made our cooperation ultimately that important and - for me at least - that interesting.

All in all, the original FreeSpace story, for what it is, purposefully makes you the "nameless cog in the great machine" (which is a feeling I really miss and I think none of the mods even attempted to catch this at all, StL had a shred of it but that was satisfying for entirely different reason - as for my mod, I try to keep the player as "nameless coggy" as possible since I consider it to be an integral part for FS) and as such the "humane" part of Alpha 1 is basically unimportant. Of course, they could have written a story with multiple human factions, but that would have been something entirely different. For what :v: made, aliens were needed. And if you would have wanted different effects, you would have needed a different story as well. At least, in my opinion.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
I can see where people are coming from when they decide to destroy the transport, but you're a GTVA Officer, you've taken an oath that includes the protection of civilians.

I know for a fact integrity is a key quality at the Officer Selection Board, and really, when you start killing civilians, how much good are you starting to do here? You're not in a special operations squadron, you're not doing anything classified, you're just doing run of the mill general duties for a frontline squadron, little except your cover is at stake here.

As soon as Niven or whatever his name was started the countdown, I started formulating a plan which involved targeting Niven, expecting the squadron to fall into disarray due to loss of leadership, and then shoot my way out using tempests. Not in those words of course, since I was only about 8/9. :P And unfortunately FS doesn't model the loss of leadership within a squadron.
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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Well mitigated by the fact that half the NTF seem to be SoC operatives in disguise anyway, you'd think the lives of 40 or so people onboard one elysium transport is worth continued high level activities with the iceni.

But yea....
FS2 is so 'overwritten' it's stupid in quite a lot of places.
So there really isn't any point in killing the transport, since they have at least another 20 people on the Iceni ¬.¬
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Offline Lucika

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
I'd like to repeat that even if I gun my squad down I still can't do squat (can't depart) and it is 1:100 at most that Commanf finds me before the NTF finds a more effective way to kill me.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
I always love listening to people coming up with rationales for being bastards. :p
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
As soon as Niven or whatever his name was started the countdown, I started formulating a plan which involved targeting Niven, expecting the squadron to fall into disarray due to loss of leadership, and then shoot my way out using tempests. Not in those words of course, since I was only about 8/9. :P And unfortunately FS doesn't model the loss of leadership within a squadron.


...you COULD technically probably FRED that sort of thing.

Morale would affect the hostiles' and friendly ships' AI levels. A squadron losing their leader would fall apart unless the second in command saved their morale check and took command immediately.

Actually it would be somewhat possible to add some RPG-ish elements with character variables affecting the skills and effectiveness of ships all over the place. :nervous:
* Herra Tohtori imagines campaign-start-up screen where you roll and assign STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS and CHAR values to the character, and the campaign will use these values somehow...
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Nah, just DEX, CON, INT and CHA.

Dex could have to do with maneuverability and stuff.  Con.... I'm not sure, but probably somewhere.  INT could have benefits to the ETS, scanning cargo, etc.  CHA would have to do with wingmen somehow.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
Herra, stop spoiling things.  :mad:

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Vasudans and Shivans: Responsible for limiting the depth of FreeSpace's plot?
As soon as Niven or whatever his name was started the countdown, I started formulating a plan which involved targeting Niven, expecting the squadron to fall into disarray due to loss of leadership, and then shoot my way out using tempests. Not in those words of course, since I was only about 8/9. :P And unfortunately FS doesn't model the loss of leadership within a squadron.


...you COULD technically probably FRED that sort of thing.

Morale would affect the hostiles' and friendly ships' AI levels. A squadron losing their leader would fall apart unless the second in command saved their morale check and took command immediately.

Actually it would be somewhat possible to add some RPG-ish elements with character variables affecting the skills and effectiveness of ships all over the place. :nervous:
* Herra Tohtori imagines campaign-start-up screen where you roll and assign STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS and CHAR values to the character, and the campaign will use these values somehow...

:lol: FS2RPG  :D

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