[Kosh]

Is this some kind of free pr0n?

For the last few years, federal agencies have defended body scanning by insisting that all images will be discarded as soon as they're viewed. The Transportation Security Administration claimed last summer, for instance, that "scanned images cannot be stored or recorded."

Now it turns out that some police agencies are storing the controversial images after all. The U.S. Marshals Service admitted this week that it had surreptitiously saved tens of thousands of images recorded with a millimeter wave system at the security checkpoint of a single Florida courthouse.

This follows an earlier disclosure (PDF) by the TSA that it requires all airport body scanners it purchases to be able to store and transmit images for "testing, training, and evaluation purposes." The agency says, however, that those capabilities are not normally activated when the devices are installed at airports.

Body scanners penetrate clothing to provide a highly detailed image so accurate that critics have likened it to a virtual strip search. Technologies vary, with millimeter wave systems capturing fuzzier images, and backscatter X-ray machines able to show precise anatomical detail. The U.S. government likes the idea because body scanners can detect concealed weapons better than traditional magnetometers.

What makes this a real problem is these things are going up all over the country.

[headdie]

i can see the need to keep select images for training and evaluation purposes, lets face it real life always throws the unexpected at you.

but to do it in secret is indefensible

[Klaustrophobia]

If some perv wants to look at me with an x-ray type of thing, honestly I could care less.

[Turambar]

Any minors go through the scanners?

[castor]

If some perv wants to look at me with an x-ray type of thing, honestly I could care less.

Are they now at 1st gen of these scanners, 2nd gen? Anyway, they'll probably get better with the detail in the the coming years.

[Titan]

To be honest, I would feel proud if I was chosen, out of everyone, to be stared at by some perv.
It makes me feel pretty.

[castor]

And when they leak it to internets? 

[Angelus]

And when they leak it to internets? 

then someone will end as a 4chan-created meme. congrats

[watsisname]

I'm just going to be really silly and just work with the statements that were provided.

The Transportation Security Administration claimed last summer, for instance, that "scanned images cannot be stored or recorded.

Mmhmm.

"Now it turns out that some police agencies are storing the controversial images after all. The U.S. Marshals Service admitted this week that it had surreptitiously saved tens of thousands of images recorded with a millimeter wave system at the security checkpoint of a single Florida courthouse."

Hrmmm, so it appears that the first statement was a lie, yes/no?

This follows an earlier disclosure (PDF) by the TSA that it requires all airport body scanners it purchases to be able to store and transmit images for "testing, training, and evaluation purposes."

Sure, fair enough I s'pose.

The agency says, however, that those capabilities are not normally activated when the devices are installed at airports.

Oh, it's soooo specific and clear when you include the words "not normally".

Body scanners penetrate clothing to provide a highly detailed image so accurate that critics have likened it to a virtual strip search. Technologies vary, with millimeter wave systems capturing fuzzier images, and backscatter X-ray machines able to show precise anatomical detail. The U.S. government likes the idea because body scanners can detect concealed weapons better than traditional magnetometers.

That's nice.  Quite frankly I couldn't care less if my body is being scanned/imaged in such a fashion, as long as it's not dangerous to my health in any way.  (I'm slightly dubious of X-rays, but whatever).  If someone's behind the curtain jacking off to a fuzzy X-ray/thermal image of a little girl, then that's pretty messed up but hey it's not like it's actually pornographic imo.  Might as well have the hots for a picture of a skeleton. :X

My concern is not about the morality of this imaging technique.  Rather it's about them seemingly giving conflicting information.

[Kosh]

Any minors go through the scanners?

They are at entrances to some public areas, right? If so then probably.

To be honest, I would feel proud if I was chosen, out of everyone, to be stared at by some perv.
It makes me feel pretty.

Not all of us feel so good about being the object of a perv's fantasies.

[NGTM-1R]

Not all of us feel so good about being the object of a perv's fantasies.

Let's be honest here, this is only lowering the bar on the degree of perv. It's not like you couldn't be before.

[Trivial Psychic]

I could foresee a more useful purpose for storing this level of detail and retaining it for purposes other than training and evaluation.  If each scan is cataloged and matched to a person, it could present options for detecting known terrorists.  Exact physical profiles and skeletal scans make it much harder for someone to pass though in disguise or other.  Up here in Canada, there was a recent uproar about women in facial coverings who weren't having their faces matched to their pass-ports, because they "can't" take off their scarves in public.  Having a precise skeletal scan to compare against would prove useful in confirming identities without the need for uncovering.

You agree to submit to a scan whenever you update your passport.  Your passport contains a special chip which interfaces with a database of scans.  The passport confirms you visually and provides redundancy, while your scan at their airport is compared against an international database and your identity is confirmed... and you get clearer for weapons at the same time.

All well and good, but it could easily be seen as an invasion of privacy.

[MP-Ryan]

You agree to submit to a scan whenever you update your passport.  Your passport contains a special chip which interfaces with a database of scans.  The passport confirms you visually and provides redundancy, while your scan at their airport is compared against an international database and your identity is confirmed... and you get clearer for weapons at the same time.

Canadian passports do not contain RFID chips; scans at border crossings read a special line of code printed at the top and compare to national databases for Customs, Immigration, and police records (CPIC/NCIC), and display all the information in a friendly format for the customs/immigration officer to read.  In addition, Canadian passports do not have any enhanced biometrics (yet). I have no idea where you claim to get your information, but it's incorrect.

US and Australian passports currently have [unencrypted] RFID chips in them which allow distance reading of the data contained in the passport, including its number, but none of these chips contain anything other than what is already printed in the document.

Regardless, the type of intrusion you submit to crossing international borders is by both necessity and definition different than what should be required to travel within your own country - especially since North American airport security is a complete and total joke.  The TSA and CATSA operate on the premise that the illusion and inconvenience of screening security make people feel safe.

---

Back on topic - if anyone is surprised by the original piece of news posted in this topic, I have some beautiful oceanfront property for sale (cheap!) located just east of the Rockies in Alberta.

[aRaven]

pics or it didn't happen

[Trivial Psychic]

You agree to submit to a scan whenever you update your passport.  Your passport contains a special chip which interfaces with a database of scans.  The passport confirms you visually and provides redundancy, while your scan at their airport is compared against an international database and your identity is confirmed... and you get clearer for weapons at the same time.

Canadian passports do not contain RFID chips; scans at border crossings read a special line of code printed at the top and compare to national databases for Customs, Immigration, and police records (CPIC/NCIC), and display all the information in a friendly format for the customs/immigration officer to read.  In addition, Canadian passports do not have any enhanced biometrics (yet). I have no idea where you claim to get your information, but it's incorrect.

Actually, I wasn't saying "this is how it is", I was actually saying "this is how it COULD be made to work."  I guess my choice of phrasing was a bit confusing... sorry.

[Flipside]

Wish I could say I was surprised but I was concerned about the privacy of the images before the system even started, and, allegedly, I was talking out of my arse...

Seems my arse had a point...

[StarSlayer]

They should take a page from Israel, hire competent, motivated, well trained people to work the gates.  They go through the line interviewing the people from a questionnaire, take note of their reactions and escalate the process on those that react suspiciously.  Basically even the most die hard zealot shows signs under the process and their security is trained to pick up on the cues.  Instead we're going to utilize lax hiring and training procedures and hope some expensive undignified gadget might do the trick.

[iamzack]

They should take a page from Israel, hire competent, motivated, well trained people to work the gates.  They go through the line interviewing the people from a questionnaire, take note of their reactions and escalate the process on those that react suspiciously.  Basically even the most die hard zealot shows signs under the process and their security is trained to pick up on the cues.

Jesus, I would never be able to fly again if they did that.

[NGTM-1R]

Seems my arse had a point...

You've forgotten how that conversation went, 'cuz this wasn't part of it.

[Flipside]

It was basically about how those images were treated, we were being assured they were being disposed of, and that it would be treated with a level of respect for the people being imaged. In my last thread I expressed my concern at the checks and measures put into place with regards to viewing those images, it was later revealed that this part of my concern was also well founded as it seems there are no checks or measures. This is really just the icing on the cake, not only is there very little concern for treating passengers with dignity, but basically, every promise made about these devices has turned out to be a lie.

Frankly, this is every bit as much to do with how those devices are being used as who is at the terminal examining the image in the first place. Unfortunately, most people didn't actually read most of my posts on the last thread, and tended to reply after reading the first couple of sentences instead of the whole thing... Hence it got to the point where I was saying 'I'm not complaining about the existence of these items and why they are needed', and being told 'You don't have a leg to stand on, these things are legal and there's not a thing you can do about it', which serves as pretty good evidence that my posts were not actually read.

Edit: And for those of you wondering, here is the thread:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67473.0

I still consider it an absolutely disgusting display of people seeing what they want to see and not actually reading what I was saying. It's certainly the reason I tend to not bother to get involved in discussions on HLP any more.