[Destiny]

Well, comparing a Great War-era fighter with a post-Capella fighter, the Atalanta logically beats the Herc on paper and in practice, with many things to factor in. I should've replaced the Herc with the Aurora, but FRED's ship dropdown list is so messy and I kinda like the blockiness of the Herc I. Hell, that Herc 1 survived an atmospheric re-entry and landed upside down all in one piece, with only it's nose bent.

[PsychoLandlord]

Hell, that Herc 1 survived an atmospheric re-entry and landed upside down all in one piece, with only it's nose bent.

Chances are, so could most FS fightercraft, given the yield on the weapons they regularly tank multiple hits from.

[-Norbert-]

Don't forget experiance. That SOC pilot probably flew that particular fighter for decades and modified it here and there. He knows every oddity and nook and cranny of his fighter. By now it's more like an extention of himself than a ship he sits in.

[SpardaSon21]

In other words: Balls of STEELE.

[PsychoLandlord]

Don't forget experiance. That SOC pilot probably flew that particular fighter for decades and modified it here and there. He knows every oddity and nook and cranny of his fighter. By now it's more like an extention of himself than a ship he sits in.

Just out of curiosity, how many 50+ SOC pilots do they have running around?

[Scotty]

50+?  I dunno.  Xinny and Zero could have conceivably only been 40 or so during WiH, and there were Herc Is still in service with at least the NTF during their early service.  40 isn't (I think) very old in a highly advanced society such as that of the GTVA/UEF.

[PsychoLandlord]

Oh yeah, I didn't take into account the possibility of lengthened lifespans. Still, I highly doubt that any SOC pilots still fly around the Herc 1. I don't care how familiar with it they may be, next-gen fighters are simply superior and in all likelihood easier to maintain at this point in time, and the military couldn't give less of a crap about  your soft spot for old tech  when you work as a high tier military asset on sensitive black-ops missions.

[Scotty]

Easier to maintain?  I think not, actually.  With something like the Anemoi able to machine any parts you need, and a design like the Herc having had enough time for any and all technical issues ever to be ironed out in the basic design, I'd buy a Herc still having a billet or two in SOC units.  Hell, I'd buy a Herc I in an SOC unit being as capable as, or even superior to new ships in several respects, due to upgrades and refits over the 50+ year service life.

[PsychoLandlord]

I still doubt it. Newer generation ships are capable of taking advantage of technology  that great war relics do not, and they likely aren't capable of doing so barring massive redesigns such as the Ares. I'm not trying to say that the Herc 1 and its great war counterparts have been completely phased out of the GTVA, as they likely act in a position equivalent to a National Guard Air Force, but IMO the idea of that the SOC or any frontline fighter squadrons still use the old horse is absurd. Theres tech out there that is simply better and assets such as the SOC need said tech in their line of work.

That said, I would admittedly love to see how a current generation Herc refit would perform.

[Jellyfish]

There's a reason you don't see aces today flying Spitfires, after all.

About the SOC getting better stuff, didn't the GTVA also use them for testing purposes?

[-Norbert-]

But if there is any place the GTVA uses old fighters still, it's the SOC. Surely it's hard to do an undercover job in a fighter that is so new that no regular wing got access to them.
A Herc on the other side would let the SOC operative blend in well with the local pirates, mercs or private security company.
Sure they have some missions like "Into the Lions Den" were they need state of the art equip, but they also infiltrate, like the NTF spy loop.

[Scotty]

There's a reason you don't see aces today flying Spitfires, after all.

About the SOC getting better stuff, didn't the GTVA also use them for testing purposes?

It's also a fictional game, with technology that hasn't stagnated, but certainly isn't advancing in comparable leaps and bounds of destructive power or durability.  You can just take a look at how a Herc I stacks up with no modifications to see that.

A one-off upgraded Herc seeing service with an SOC squadron isn't so far outside the bounds of possibilty.

[Snail]

One possible explanation is that the UEF ECM doesn't affect older avionics.

[PsychoLandlord]

Newer ships may not be terribly tougher or more powerful than the Herc (though in a fight between a Herc and an Atalanta, I'd give it to the Atalanta damn near every time,) but the added ECM, Stealth, and targeting capabilities are where the next-gen fighters really come into their own.

One possible explanation is that the UEF ECM doesn't affect older avionics.

This is actually a fair point. I'b be willing to bet the GTVA could employ older fighters in a fashion similar to the Viper Mk II's in BSG. They'd be even more hopelessly outclassed in a dogfight by the UEF fighter corps, though.

[Pred the Penguin]

Even the newer fighters are cut down in swathes by the UEF...

[crizza]

Renewed Apollo ftw
God...I would actually kill for a repolished model, with new table etc and able to use balors 

[Dilmah G]

50+?  I dunno.  Xinny and Zero could have conceivably only been 40 or so during WiH, and there were Herc Is still in service with at least the NTF during their early service.  40 isn't (I think) very old in a highly advanced society such as that of the GTVA/UEF.

Just on this point, I believe a study done by the RAAF showed that the older you get over 22, the more unlikely you are to graduate Fast-Jet conversion and OPCON. Actually it may have been the former but that doesn't exactly matter given the context.

Part of being a good FJ pilot is being able to think ahead of the aircraft - as you get older, this skill will generally worsen. 5 seconds behind the aircraft is passable on a trainer, can get you into sticky situations with middle of the range fighters and will be fatal at top of the line fighters (So I hear). I'd hazard a guess that even in a society where people live longer, you couldn't realistically expect pilots to safely operate their fighters beyond about 35 years old, especially in SOC when flying at the very best of one's ability would mean these pilots would have to have been young. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Snipes was in his late 20's.

[Ravenholme]

That's actually a really cool screenshot.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

Please have the Tevs do something utterly badass like that in WiH 2 or BP3. Jump a ship through, have it disgorge a compliment of fighters immediately from it's docks, and then launch others from the Fighterbay.

[Snail]

This is actually a fair point. I'b be willing to bet the GTVA could employ older fighters in a fashion similar to the Viper Mk II's in BSG. They'd be even more hopelessly outclassed in a dogfight by the UEF fighter corps, though.

Probably they're there for a special profile mission that doesn't involve straight-up fights. Maybe they just get in, splash the Oculus and get out quick, something like that.

Just on this point, I believe a study done by the RAAF showed that the older you get over 22, the more unlikely you are to graduate Fast-Jet conversion and OPCON. Actually it may have been the former but that doesn't exactly matter given the context.

Part of being a good FJ pilot is being able to think ahead of the aircraft - as you get older, this skill will generally worsen. 5 seconds behind the aircraft is passable on a trainer, can get you into sticky situations with middle of the range fighters and will be fatal at top of the line fighters (So I hear). I'd hazard a guess that even in a society where people live longer, you couldn't realistically expect pilots to safely operate their fighters beyond about 35 years old, especially in SOC when flying at the very best of one's ability would mean these pilots would have to have been young. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Snipes was in his late 20's.

Still doesn't take into account improved life expectancy etc. that the GTVA (and UEF) probably has at that point. A certain centenarian plays a role in WiH, remember.

[Destiny]

I think the Oculus splashing can be quite reasonable. If the Hercs carried some TAG-As along while/after blowing up the Oculus and had time/hull to spare, they could TAG any nearby ships and jump out. If somehow they have no fighter cover left for various reasons, Calder'll really have his blood vessels burst. "They were defeated by...Great War relics...?! What bull**** is this?!

Thanks for the praise, Battuta and Ravenholme~ Although, to get the full effect of fighters just launching off the docks, you'd actually have to be extremely close to the ship. Hopefully as an allied fighter in trouble, with a SOC Diomedes jumping out a few meters beside/perpendicular to you.