[-Sara-]

The tech description mentions that the old Herc Mk. 1's are now used in security operations or even as targets. I guess it may make a good trainer also.

Summed up some of the old FS1 era fighters using the BP tech description:

GTF Hercules: Target practise (presumably as drones) and security operations (I imagine defending low-profile depots or civilian spacelanes). Retired from the front-lines. No longer produced.
GTF Ulysses: Seems to have served and may still serve as combat evaluation fighters. Retired from the front-lines. Produced still, but in small numbers.
GTF Loki: Most spaceframes were sold off, I assume to mercenaries or civilian contractors. Presumably retired from the front-lines, but not all spaceframes were sold. No longer produced since the NTF rebellion.
GTB Medusa: Described as an obsolete bomber, it's only mentioned in the past tense. Probably no longer used on the front-lines. Presumably no longer produced.
GTB Ursa: Still in use but considered a dead-end design-wise. Still in use on front lines. Perhaps still produced for it's role as heavy bomber, unless only previously produced Ursa's are used.
GTB Zeus: Has been used for a while as Trebuchet delivery system, now is a training target (presumably as drone). Mostly removed from service, very likely no longer serving on the front-lines. Assumably no longer produced.

[Dilmah G]

Still doesn't take into account improved life expectancy etc. that the GTVA (and UEF) probably has at that point. A certain centenarian plays a role in WiH, remember.

Actually I did. Currently the retirement age among FJ pilots is closer to 27.5 or a little below (would certainly be if we had something similar to the SOC, where an extremely high standard of flying is expected), and 30 is stretching is. I'd guess the mean to be about 35 in WiH world, with a standard deviation of 2/3 years. Although I'm getting the feeling that that may still be on the lower side. Can anyone give us the life expectancy?

[General Battuta]

Assuming Xinny and Zero were 20-25 during Into the Lion's Den they're 38-43 during the events of WiH, so it's no wonder they called each other 'old man'.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't on any form of active flight duty until Al'Fadil was captured.

[Dilmah G]

Yeah man, that would make a lot of sense.

[Destiny]

If one hopes that they're genius 18-year old prodigy pilots...but those two years don't matter, does it? Hmm...might as well toss something new in!



I only realized that it was AA that made my still shots look so horrible. It looks even better in FRED!

[crizza]

Nice one Destiny...actually, freded properly, the Naras should be able to simply snipe at the shivan beam turrets...It's damn worth a try^^

[Destiny]

Oh you should've seen how many shockwaves when I forgot to add 'play dead' to the initial orders...well, I'm sure everyone's done this kind of thing at some point of time.

[rscaper1070]

Still doesn't take into account improved life expectancy etc. that the GTVA (and UEF) probably has at that point. A certain centenarian plays a role in WiH, remember.

Actually I did. Currently the retirement age among FJ pilots is closer to 27.5 or a little below (would certainly be if we had something similar to the SOC, where an extremely high standard of flying is expected), and 30 is stretching is. I'd guess the mean to be about 35 in WiH world, with a standard deviation of 2/3 years. Although I'm getting the feeling that that may still be on the lower side. Can anyone give us the life expectancy?

I think 27.5 is the cut off for recruitment not retirement. At least that is what it says here.

[crizza]

Oh you should've seen how many shockwaves when I forgot to add 'play dead' to the initial orders...well, I'm sure everyone's done this kind of thing at some point of time.

Just tried it with the third fleet...pretty sick, apart from lag, 'cause I added some shivan strikecraft...
But why the heck is a sathanas beam cannon able to shoot at two ships at once?

[PsychoLandlord]

Thats pretty epic Destiny. And thank you for the tech room summary Sara, I was hoping someone would post something like that up.

I'm admittedly curious as to why the GTVA hasn't managed to produce something better than the Boanerges so they can finally retire the Ursa.

[General Battuta]

Thats pretty epic Destiny. And thank you for the tech room summary Sara, I was hoping someone would post something like that up.

I'm admittedly curious as to why the GTVA hasn't managed to produce something better than the Boanerges so they can finally retire the Ursa.

Post-Capella doctrine places the anti-warship role mostly in the hands of warships. And it's lucky they made that decision come the War in Heaven - look at what Slammers can do to wings of heavy bombers!

[PsychoLandlord]

Post-Capella doctrine places the anti-warship role mostly in the hands of warships. And it's lucky they made that decision come the War in Heaven - look at what Slammers can do to wings of heavy bombers!

I understand that well enough, I'm just surprised the TEI didn't call for a better heavy Bomber design that could have been put through a limited production run and used situationally. You can never be too prepared, especially in this case.

(I know, you guys were limited by what assets were available and all. Just some musing in an attempt to alleviate boredom and all.)

[General Battuta]

Post-Capella doctrine places the anti-warship role mostly in the hands of warships. And it's lucky they made that decision come the War in Heaven - look at what Slammers can do to wings of heavy bombers!

I understand that well enough, I'm just surprised the TEI didn't call for a better heavy Bomber design that could have been put through a limited production run and used situationally. You can never be too prepared, especially in this case.

(I know, you guys were limited by what assets were available and all. Just some musing in an attempt to alleviate boredom and all.)

No, there definitely were heavy bombers we could have gone for, but the conclusion of the TEI was that the whole heavy bomber role as it existed was fundamentally misguided. A lot of the BP2 tech descriptions talk about the move to a more agile, fighterlike bomber force; thus the Rhea.

On the gameplay level a lot of this has to do with the fact that the primary way to stay alive is to have agility and speed, not hitpoints. If and when heavy bombers do make a reappearance, the only way they'll have a niche is if they go in the direction of the Seraphim, only with even more turrets. Internally we refer to this as the 'fortress bomber' concept.

[Droid803]

The Rhea's a curious specimen...
Less capacity than Herc2s/Ares :/

[Jellyfish]

Assuming Xinny and Zero were 20-25 during Into the Lion's Den

Too young for Special Forces, isn't that?

[PsychoLandlord]

No, there definitely were heavy bombers we could have gone for, but the conclusion of the TEI was that the whole heavy bomber role as it existed was fundamentally misguided. A lot of the BP2 tech descriptions talk about the move to a more agile, fighterlike bomber force; thus the Rhea.

On the gameplay level a lot of this has to do with the fact that the primary way to stay alive is to have agility and speed, not hitpoints. If and when heavy bombers do make a reappearance, the only way they'll have a niche is if they go in the direction of the Seraphim, only with even more turrets. Internally we refer to this as the 'fortress bomber' concept.

Interesting, but don't many of the UEF bombers qualify as Fortress bombers, with the logical extreme being the Vajra? Granted, they have their logistical drawbacks, but it still seems like a valid proof of concept for GTVA R&D. (Though IIRC the Vajra hasn't seen action yet, and it will be hilarious to see the looks on the Tev captains faces when it does, assuming it's successful of course.)

[Scotty]

Assuming Xinny and Zero were 20-25 during Into the Lion's Den

Too young for Special Forces, isn't that?

Special forces has no lower bound age requirment other than "has completed <x> training" and "be enlisted."

[Kosh]

Thats pretty epic Destiny. And thank you for the tech room summary Sara, I was hoping someone would post something like that up.

I'm admittedly curious as to why the GTVA hasn't managed to produce something better than the Boanerges so they can finally retire the Ursa.

They have all along, it's called the Sekhmet. It's a shame the Terrans are too proud to use Zod designs.....

[MatthTheGeek]

Or simply don't have the rights to do so. Remember that the Tev-Zods relations aren't exactly at their best...

[Dilmah G]

I think 27.5 is the cut off for recruitment not retirement. At least that is what it says here.

27.5 is the cut-off age in a few modern Air Forces, and from memory it's even lower in the RAF (they actually prefer non-uni grads, they prefer to get them that young). I know with some certainty though that that's also fairly close to the mean age that pilots start to retire from FJ's, though. Perhaps the numbers are related? I don't know for sure, although I could hazard a few guesses.

Assuming Xinny and Zero were 20-25 during Into the Lion's Den

Too young for Special Forces, isn't that?

Special forces has no lower bound age requirment other than "has completed <x> training" and "be enlisted."

Yeah, but I believe he has a point - the current SASR in Australia has a mean age of 30, life experience being a highly valued trait in operators, it seems. But I think that'd be negated by the fact that when it comes to FJ's, and recruiting top of the line pilots for SOC, they'd have to be reasonably young to still be current pilots (I'd guess 24.5-26 on average) and experienced. I'd say maybe 1500+ hours in FJ's and have shown a lot of potential. The British Red Arrows have similar requirements and most of their pilots are Flight Lieutenants (Army equiv : Captain, for those who aren't sure).