[-Norbert-]

Or that the GTVA upper echelons fear for their power, which the spread of Ubuntu would undermine.
Or to prevent mass emmigration of GTVA citizens to Sol, which might be a death sentence to the already badly mauled economy of the terran part of the GTVA.

[Mars]

I would like to add an addendum to my original point about Steele being sent against the Shivans. As Logistics stated, inevitably, the GTVA simply will not be able to stop the Shivans barring plot-****ery, due to the various reasons posted. This is yet another reason the Sol War seems so short sighted and stupid, seeing as how it wont really achieve anything.

I, however, am firmly of the opinion that said Plot-****ery has already occurred. I think the GTVA does actually have what they believe to be a viable, possibly even offensive, strategy waiting for the next Shivan incursion. My reasoning for this is simple - yes, the security council has proven arrogant and foolhardy in the past. Yes, the GTVA as a whole is mad with fear at the very thought of Shivans, and allows that to be the driving force behind their existence, but surely even they must realize that their empire is not infinite. They wont be able to play the game of containment for very long. Yet here they are, heaving their bulk around, loudly proclaiming themselves the true protectors of Humanity and waging war on their ancestral home for it's resources. We already know why the war was perpetrated, but if the GTVA didn't believe themselves capable of actually fighting off the Shivans then I doubt they would have gone to war so willingly.

Remember, the war of attrition was accidental. They intended to take over in days, not years. Even so, from the GTVA perspective an investment in 1/5th of their fleet and even a fairly significant amount of time, essentially doubles their ability to fuel their war machine.

[Destiny]

The whole mess wouldn't have happened if the 14th Battlegroup didn't chance upon a meson fluctuation. Earth would right now, be part of the GTVA.

[Mars]

Or if Morion hadn't been Morion. Imagine if you will, an alternate universe in which SOC trained, Magnificent Bastard Steele had been Vice Admiral of the 14th.

Or if it had been the Carthage battle group that had been selected for the Sol invasion.

[Ravenholme]

Or if Morion hadn't been Morion. Imagine if you will, an alternate universe in which SOC trained, Magnificent Bastard Steele had been Vice Admiral of the 14th

That... That's the world I want to live in....

*dreamy sigh*

[Mars]

Or if Morion hadn't been Morion. Imagine if you will, an alternate universe in which SOC trained, Magnificent Bastard Steele had been Vice Admiral of the 14th

That... That's the world I want to live in....

*dreamy sigh*

lmao ouch. . .

My point is, it was a very specific chain of events that lead to the war of attrition.

[Ravenholme]

Or if Morion hadn't been Morion. Imagine if you will, an alternate universe in which SOC trained, Magnificent Bastard Steele had been Vice Admiral of the 14th

That... That's the world I want to live in....

*dreamy sigh*

mao ouch. . .

My point is, it was a very specific chain of events that lead to the war of attrition.

I agree with you, by the way, but I just had visions of AoA with Steele as the 2IC of the 14th, and I can't express how awesome that would've been.

[Mars]

I actually think the Carhage battle group would have held up better after the fact than a battle group commanded by Steele (less mutiny) although it wouldn't have lasted as well in the alternate universe.

EDIT:

Just judging off of the background info on all of the admirals.

[Buckshee Rounds]

I actually think the Carhage battle group would have held up better after the fact than a battle group commanded by Steele (less mutiny) although it wouldn't have lasted as well in the alternate universe.

EDIT:

Just judging off of the background info on all of the admirals.

If I'd have been a Fed pilot facing the Carthage BG I'd be more than a little confused and upset to be seeing my mighty UEF armada conquered by Great War relics.

[Mars]

LMAO.

Calder: "I don't remember those things being that tough. . ."

[PsychoLandlord]

Okay, yes, the war happened because aliens cant leave well enough alone, but seriously, if the GTVA didn't think they had a shot at actually stopping the Shivans once and for all I still think they would've found some alternative to continuing their attack. It isn't as though the UEF would actually give a damn about following them, and theres all sorts of measures that could be taken to prevent the mass immigration everyone is worried about.

I mean surely the GTVA high command cant still be so arrogant as assuming they can win through simply the introduction of new technology....

[Luis Dias]

Why do you all accept blindingly that Steele would have made the same kind of risky tactics in AoA that he has chosen to do in WiH?

Usually, when I am playing someone I know is "inferior" to me, but is being a pain in the ass, at any type of game, I'll try to steamroll him.
But that doesn't mean I'll play the same tactic when I play someone I know plays better than me.

[General Battuta]

Why do you all accept blindingly that Steele would have made the same kind of risky tactics in AoA that he has chosen to do in WiH?

Usually, when I am playing someone I know is "inferior" to me, but is being a pain in the ass, at any type of game, I'll try to steamroll him.
But that doesn't mean I'll play the same tactic when I play someone I know plays better than me.

This is an excellent point - there's no reason to believe Steele would necessarily stick to the same game plan against a different opponent.

[Mars]

It's like playing with a superior force in SoaSE or Homeworld 2 - you can fight a long battle using many resources, a lot of time, and many, and risk many warships, or you can use risky tactics, stalk up on bombers and torpedo frigates (high damage, low survivability units) and go straight for the throat, putting a few units at a lot of risk

EDIT:

SoaSE comes to mind because there have been games I've played where one player has 5X as large a fleet, but the other player manages to drag the game out for HOURS.

[Nohiki]

Spoiler:

I identify with the Alliance - I'm bigger, so all your base are belong to us.
I killed Xinny and Zero - Bastards let me do all the work in the lion's den
I found the Simms conversation easy - Pressed random buttons, oh hey, it worked
I thought the Vasudan logistics incident was a terrible accident - *Proud vasudan rights supporter*
I thought the assassination was a good move - See why i side with the alliance?
I love Admiral Steele - Robots running army is the best choice.
0: Steele may not harm GTVA, or, by inaction, allow GTVA to come to harm.
1: Steele may not injure a GTVA Citizen or, through inaction, allow a GTVA Citizen to come to harm, except where such orders would conflict with the Zeroth Law.
2: Steele must obey any orders given to it by GTVA, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3: Steele must protect his own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Ironic that the elders seem to adhere to a form of pyschohistory, or whatever they call their "advanced socio-economic projections".

[Ypoknons]

Krugman once said that he wanted a psychohistorian, but couldn't, so he became an economist. And I mean, economists, behavioral or otherwise, do try to figure act how people will react. It's not really that different. The matter is one mainly of ability and degree, as well as scope. The difference is that our understanding of economics, and particularly finance, is still in it's infancy.

[General Battuta]

Indeed. The whole concept of the UEF is predicated on the notion that economics and the behavioral sciences (along with computer hardware and simulation) will make enormous strides.

[Ypoknons]

Indeed, I was disappointed that whilst the UEF has managed to reduce expectation and confirmation bias in its population, WiH does not cure the biases of the player. For example, I, as a player, experianced expectation bias on flying the Kent - I believed it had a paperthin hull because it was an interceptor, before being told and checking for myself that it has as much hull as an Uhlan. I can only hope that R2 will live up to the hype and solve the problem of congitive bias for all those privilaged enough to play it...  (yes, a gentle nudge at Sppon's hype thread I couldn't resist).

In seriousness, I would be interested in exploring the behavioral and prediction themes fruther in R2.

[General Battuta]

Your interest will be piqued, then.