[Herra Tohtori]

So, I was tasked with building new computers for my parents to replace the six year old HP OEM boxes. The other will be for general purpose home usage, the other will be my dad's workstation build. Today, we went to shoppe and acquired most of the parts required. Here are the general outlines for both.


Home PC:

Case: Nexus Clodius

PSU: Zalman ZM600-HP (600W)

MOBO: Asus P7H55

CPU: Intel Core i3-530

RAM: 4GB (2x2GB) Kingston KVR1333D3N9

GPU: Asus EAH5570 1GB DDR3

HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB

Optical: LG [insert long code here] combo CD/DVD burner

OS: Win7 Home Premium

Speakers: Creative Inspire T10

Keyboard: Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500

Mouse: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2000



Workstation:

Case: Nexus Clodius

PSU: NexusRX-8500 (850W)

MOBO: Asus P7P55D-E

CPU: Intel Core i7-860

RAM: 8GB (4x2GB) Kingston KVR1333D3N9

GPU: HP NVidia Quadro FX1800 768MB

HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB (5 year warranty!)

Optical: LG [insert long code here] combo CD/DVD burner

OS: Windows 7 Ultimate Edition

Keyboard: Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500

Mouse: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2000


The graphics card for the workstation is on order and expected to arrive within 2-5 business days, although I'd give it a week, probably. Both systems will also have a memory card reader fitted in the 3.5" bay on the case.

I expect to get the home PC up and running by tomorrow evening, but I figured I might as well post this to get some idea what you guys think of these systems. Basically, these systems are both built for the long haul and as such, I did want to use mostly up-to-date hardware. The home PC will not experience any heavy gaming at all (except quite possibly me playing some FS2_Open) so I couldn't with good conscience recommend any significantly better GPU for it, but I recon the 5570 will be plenty sufficient for watching videos and doing what little gaming happens on this PC. Plus I can possibly later give my current GF8800GT to this PC...

My dad's workstation is based on recommended specifications for the software he uses. He's an architect and uses Autodesk CAD as well as a program called Vertex, so better CPU, moar RAM, somewhat better MOBO (USB-3 support will likely be useful if he does back-ups on external USB or stuff), and a BAMF workstation graphics card, which costs like almost 500 euros and I hope it will be worth the price. It probably will, though, considering they are built exactly for the kind of work my dad does.

For reference, the general specs for the old computers:

MOBO: Some OEM piece of crap plank
CPU: Athlon XP 3000+
Memory: 1024MB for home PC, 2048MB for my dad's current "workstation"
GPU: ATI Radeon 9200SE 
HDD: Maxtor 160GB something

...aand that's about it.

Opinionations appreciateded. 

[Ghostavo]

I've got the exact same motherboard and CPU as the workstation and I have no complaints.

Although I'm intrigued why you picked Windows 7 Ultimate over Professional.

[Herra Tohtori]

Price difference from pro to ultimate was like 5 euros. Can't remember the exact difference but they were very close and as far as I know, ultimate has all that pro has and then some.

[Bob-san]

Why those power supplies specifically? In the USA at least, there are a lot of good 80 PLUS Bronze, Silver, and Gold units for reasonable prices.

[My suggestions, respectively, would have been an Antec EA-380D (81+% efficient) and a Seasonic X650 Gold (87+% efficient]

Also, why the 4x2GB kit of RAM instead of a 2x4GB kit? Prices on the latter are reasonable (again at least in the USA).

[Klaustrophobia]

I've heard a few places that those $500 workstation graphics cards aren't really any better than a $500 gaming card at CAD type stuff.  And they can't do gaming AT ALL.  Unverified though.

For 4x2gb rather than 2x4gb, it's better because it doubles your bandwidth.  Its better to use up all the slots if you don't plan on ever adding more (which with 8gb you shouldn't before the whole computer is replaced anyway) or if you're one of those who always replaces old memory rather than add to it.

[Herra Tohtori]

Why those power supplies specifically? In the USA at least, there are a lot of good 80 PLUS Bronze, Silver, and Gold units for reasonable prices.

[My suggestions, respectively, would have been an Antec EA-380D (81+% efficient) and a Seasonic X650 Gold (87+% efficient]

I chose power supplies from brands that I have had good personal experience with (Candidates included PSU's from Zalman, Nexus and Corsair), and chose PSU's with somewhat overkill wattage because, like said, these computers are built for the long haul. The PSU's will likely never experience 100% load on these systems, which both leaves room for possible future upgrades (thinking of graphics cards mainly), and also lengthens the life time expectancy of the PSU's.

Also, why the 4x2GB kit of RAM instead of a 2x4GB kit? Prices on the latter are reasonable (again at least in the USA).

4GB modules were more expensive. Besides, if the workstation ever gets a memory upgrade (like replacing 4x2GB with 2x2GB + 2x4GB bringing it up to 12 GB), the surplus 2GB modules would be put on the home PC.

I've heard a few places that those $500 workstation graphics cards aren't really any better than a $500 gaming card at CAD type stuff.  And they can't do gaming AT ALL.  Unverified though.

They are built for faster rendering of geometry, but not textures.

In a nutshell: Gaming cards have higher internal memory bandwidth because they need to handle massive textures and solve the graphics stuff with them and shaders and stuff. Workstation cards have higher I/O bandwidth (between card and motherboard) and are designed to render wireframes fast and with high quality.

There's also the higher quality control, drivers optimized for CAD/3D design work software, which means the card is more stable with the applications as well as with the OS itself. Means less program crashes, obviously.

And yeah they are not designed for game graphics. They emphasize stability and quality in what they're designed to do, not blinding speed and massive texture handling.

That said, I really hope it will be worth it. My dad's been using the crummy Radeon 9200SE for six years, so anything that can actually run with anti-aliasing will be a massive upgrade...

For 4x2gb rather than 2x4gb, it's better because it doubles your bandwidth.  Its better to use up all the slots if you don't plan on ever adding more (which with 8gb you shouldn't before the whole computer is replaced anyway) or if you're one of those who always replaces old memory rather than add to it.

Actually, no, 4x2GB or 2x4GB is just as fast when set up correctly.

DIMM modules can be used in dual channel mode when there's just one module present. Non-DIMM modules need to be installed in pairs of two in the correct memory channels. Both 4x2GB and 2x4GB configurations will work in dual channel mode which means the bandwidth to memory should be same.

[newman]

In theory the stuff you mention about the quadros is nice. My personal experience with them in practice - they're just not worth it. Barely noticeable differences in max viewports to a "gaming" card of equal power, and doesn't do jack for rendering unless you're using a specialized renderer like the Gelato (and who does ) Last time I worked with one was two years ago however - things might have changed. I just don't buy them for my home workstation.
Rest of the config is nice, though. Got an i7 myself - the 920 - was well worth the price.

[Klaustrophobia]

maybe bandwith was the wrong word.  what i meant was you have 4 physical sticks that can be reading/writing at a time rather than just 2.  like the idea with HDD's, where 2 in a RAID config is faster than one of equivalent size.

[Bob-san]

maybe bandwith was the wrong word.  what i meant was you have 4 physical sticks that can be reading/writing at a time rather than just 2.  like the idea with HDD's, where 2 in a RAID config is faster than one of equivalent size.

Dual-channel does not become quad-channel unless the memory controller supports it. With almost any setup, dual-channel is better than single-channel. With Nehalem/LGA1366, tri-channel is better than dual-channel & single-channel. With some server gear, quad-channel is better than tri-, dual-, & single-channel.

Actually, using 4 sticks of RAM with a dual-channel memory controller puts (a significant amount of) stress on it and may limit any potential overclocks.

2x4GB
Pros: More upgradeable, lower power draw
Cons: Slightly more expensive than 4x2GB, sometimes looser timings or less headroom when overclocking memory

4x2GB;
Pros: Slightly less expensive, more compatible with older boards
Cons: Less upgradeable, higher power draw, puts unnecessary stress on some memory controllers

edit:typo

[Herra Tohtori]

In theory the stuff you mention about the quadros is nice. My personal experience with them in practice - they're just not worth it. Barely noticeable differences in max viewports to a "gaming" card of equal power, and doesn't do jack for rendering unless you're using a specialized renderer like the Gelato (and who does ) Last time I worked with one was two years ago however - things might have changed. I just don't buy them for my home workstation.
Rest of the config is nice, though. Got an i7 myself - the 920 - was well worth the price.

Yep, and to be honest I have my doubts as to whether it will actually be worth it, but it was part of the recommended specifications.

Also, as it will be my dad's work computer, it's tax deductible. And the computer will experience not gaming stress at all, so... we'll see if it's actually worth it or not.

[newman]

Fair 'nuff, hard to argue with that logic

[Herra Tohtori]

Both computers are up and running.

There was a little problem with the home PC's GPU though - it was deemed too loud by the primary user of the computer, and I had to solve the problem creatively.



...crude, but it did the trick quite well.

[Klaustrophobia]

is that held on with twisty ties? 

[Herra Tohtori]

is that held on with twisty ties? 

Why, yes. Yes it is.

They were thin enough to fit under the cooler fins and insulated. Also, more durable then copper wires of equal thickness. Sufficient structural integrity was achieved, so why not? 

But hey, at least I didn't use chewing gum and paper clips.

[castor]

Only second to duct tape.

[Herra Tohtori]

Twisty ties can be tightened by twisting the ends around each other and rotating with pliers. With cable ties you have to just pull on them, and the notches aren't always conveniently placed.

Besides I doubt I could have acquired cable ties thin enough to fit where I needed them to fit.