Author Topic: Featured Campaigns  (Read 10471 times)

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Offline Shade

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While happily browsing along on this fine morning, I came across This Thread, where the poster expressed the opinion that War in Heaven might just deserve the Featured Campaign slot more than Vassago's Dirge. And that got me thinking a bit. Well, actually, what it did was annoy me, but since the topic was locked I couldn't reply to vent my righteous wrath, and annoyance was eventually replaced by me thinking hard about why it annoyed me.

And on consideration, the reason I was annoyed was that War in Heaven doesn't deserve to be the featured campaign. And as it happens, neither does Vassago's Dirge. Why, you say? But these are excellent, even superior campaigns, you say! I agree. They are. And both have been highlighted here on the forums for just that fact. But on the wiki, their pages are rubbish. Boring. Bland. Anonymous. And while the practise of featuring sub-par articles has been going on for a long time now, in my opinion such articles really should not be featured on the main page, regardless of how epic the underlying subject matter of those articles may be.

As an example of how to do it right, Fate of the Galaxy have done a great job on their wiki page. And they haven't even released yet. Now compare that to Vassago's Dirge and Blue Planet. See the difference?

Now, I'm in no position to dictate what goes and doesn't go on the wiki (or at least, not without abusing my powers), but I'd really rather like featured articles to at least approach the level of FotG's. And if someone feels that a campaign deserved to be the featured campaign, then instead of complaining about it on the forums, the first stop should be to improve the article for the campaign in question to a point where it is actually worthy of being featured. And once that's done (and spellchecked, grammar-dehorrified etc.),  then by all means, change it - With the caveat that I also think any campaign that gets the feature spot should stay there for at least a few weeks, perhaps even a month, so I'd be ill disposed towards anyone who goes and changes it every other day.

So yeah. It's early morning and I may be a bit grumpy, but I needed that off my chest. But either way, I'd like people's opinions on this question: Should we start to require some degree of effort for featured articles, or just continue with the status quo where the featured campaign is little more than an advertisement that something exists rather than a link to a well written and informative article? My own stance should be pretty clear from the rest of those post, I think, but as I said before, I'm not about to go on a dictatorial rampage and ram my own opinion down everyone's throats... however tempting it may be ;)
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Offline Fury

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Meh. It's just my opinion but time and effort is better spent on actual mod development than wiki pages. Wiki and homepage more or less have similar purpose as far as information about mod goes. Hence I'd just put the time and effort into getting homepages into shape and then put a logo and shoddy link in wiki page pointing to the homepage.

I don't see much point in spending time on wiki page when BP has trouble to find time to keep even homepage up-to-date. Hence lately all outdated stuff has been culled from BP homepage, leaving it rather barebones. Not to mention the homepage still uses really out of date images for its background and stuff.

Alternatively put wiki page into shape and put a shoddy link to the homepage pointing to the wiki page. Either one works for me as long as dev team gets to focus on getting the mod done instead of making pretty pages. But like I said, it's just my opinion.

 

Offline TopAce

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My idea is to keep a campaign feature cue. Each released campaign that has a wiki page can stay featured for a x amount of time (I'm thinking three weeks).

I tend to agree to some extent about the article quality argument. I wouldn't mandate a good wiki page, as the community mostly simply neglects the wiki, and thus their articles are mainly a staff list, an introduction to the campaign's story, and a collection of links.

As for unreleased projects (thinking specifically of FotG): I'd rather give them the opportunity to feature their work on release.
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Offline Shade

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Quote
It's just my opinion but time and effort is better spent on actual mod development than wiki pages
Certainly. But it doesn't need to be the team itself who improve the wiki page. One of my points was actually that whoever was going to complain about it not being featured should be the one to do it, since complaining that a page is 'deserving' of a feature is so very wrong when said page is just a bare-bones blurb.

And the thing is, we already have the forum highlights for advertising excellent releases. But people don't go to the wiki for advertisement, they go there for information. So anything featured on the wiki should be chosen based on whether the article is up to par in that respect. What I don't like is seeing features which, after you've clicked them to read all about this snazzy campaign they're telling you about, leave you thinking they wasted their time because the article didn't tell you what you wanted to know, and still in the dark about whether you'd actually like to play the campaign.

Quote
My idea is to keep a campaign feature cue. Each released campaign that has a wiki page can stay featured for a x amount of time (I'm thinking three weeks).
This is a good idea, but in my opinion some degree of effort put into in the article should still be required. Again, people go to the wiki mainly for information, so when they read a featured campaign's article they should at least have some idea afterwards about what that campaign is actually about.

Quote
I wouldn't mandate a good wiki page, as the community mostly simply neglects the wiki, and thus their articles are mainly a staff list, an introduction to the campaign's story, and a collection of links.
Indeed they are. And I simply don't think such an article warrants a feature, regardless of how awesome a campaign it may belong to. If the community neglects the wiki, the wiki should be perfectly well allowed to neglect them :p I certainly wouldn't require every article to be as good as FoTG's, but even a little effort can go a long way towards getting there. A few screenshots, some info about the difference between the factions (if any), maybe some user comments... or whatever. There are many ways to improve an article, and as long as it gets done I don't care about the details.

An example of a decent article for a released campaign would be Silent Threat: Reborn - It has a link to a walkthrough, comments from players, developer notes and even a feature list. In short, it is informative. And while a walkthrough might take a long time to write, the other things do not. For that matter, The Second Great War Part II is a good campaing article, despite the questionable quality of the campaign itself, because it is well laid out and gives you an excellent idea about what the campaign is actually about. Despite the campaign author having had nothing to do with the article.

Quote
As for unreleased projects (thinking specifically of FotG): I'd rather give them the opportunity to feature their work on release.
No argument there. I simply picked FotG as an example because their article is a good one - Possibly even the best. Released campagins or mods should be what's featured, not ones that are in the pipeline.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 01:16:04 pm by Shade »
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Offline Sushi

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And the thing is, we already have the forum highlights for advertising excellent releases. But people don't go to the wiki for advertisement, they go there for information. So anything featured on the wiki should be chosen based on whether the article is up to par in that respect. What I don't like is seeing features which, after you've clicked them to read all about this snazzy campaign they're telling you about, leave you thinking they wasted their time because the article didn't tell you what you wanted to know, and still in the dark about whether you'd actually like to play the campaign.


TRUTH!

 

Offline Axem

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I tend to agree that the wiki featured campaign shouldn't be another advertisement for current campaigns. Anyone who uses the wiki probably knows HLP well enough anyway.

Perhaps we should have a featured campaign quality drive. We select a campaign every month a bring it up to the standard that these articles should be. Then the next month it is the featured campaign and the drive starts again.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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That seems like a really great idea.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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i don't think the featured campaign even needs to be a new one.  seems like this would be a good place to bring some attention to high-quality older campaigns that newer members may not know about.  as it has been stated already, it's pretty hard to miss all the advertisement surrounding the release of new campaigns.
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Offline Droid803

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i don't think the featured campaign even needs to be a new one.  seems like this would be a good place to bring some attention to high-quality older campaigns that newer members may not know about.  as it has been stated already, it's pretty hard to miss all the advertisement surrounding the release of new campaigns.

THIS.

EDIT: I find it how when you hit "more" on the Vassago's Dirge campaign feature thing, you arguably get less XD
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Offline Axem

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There, I added some more stuff to the wiki page. Are you guys satisfied yet?  :p

 

Offline Snail

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EDIT: I find it how when you hit "more" on the Vassago's Dirge campaign feature thing, you arguably get less XD
Hey! There are pictures on that page! Which is the only thing people came to see!

 

Offline Shade

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There, I added some more stuff to the wiki page. Are you guys satisfied yet?  :p
Much better now :)
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"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
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Offline Raiden

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I was the poster that started that thread, I didn't have any attention to annoy so I'm sorry about that. Basically my understanding of the 'Featured Campaign of the Moment' was that it would represent whatever mod or campaign that is at the forefront of the community's mind at that time. When Vassago's Dirge came out, everyone was raving about it, it was very impressive, and that was the campaign of the moment, surely. Then War in Heaven came along, same thing. Perhaps in a little while it should be Spoon's Wings of Dawn.

However, I think how you guys are describing it is more like Wikipedia's featured articles, which is probably the better way to do it. I myself would love to update some of the Wiki pages, but I'm just a newcomer and don't really know enough to feel confident wading in and changing things. But it would be cool to see, say, Homesick as the featured mod. Letting more people know about the classic campaigns on old.
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Offline Shade

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I should probably mention that it wasn't your post as such that annoyed me, it was the realization that so many campaign articles weren't up to spec coupled with the fact that the topic was locked so I couldn't vent about it there (I hate being late and wanting to express an opinion but being prevented from doing so by the dastardly and nefarious mods who locked the thread before I saw it :p). I'm actually rather glad you drew attention to the issue, or the status que might have gone on for a long time.
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 

Offline Iss Mneur

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However, I think how you guys are describing it is more like Wikipedia's featured articles, which is probably the better way to do it. I myself would love to update some of the Wiki pages, but I'm just a newcomer and don't really know enough to feel confident wading in and changing things. But it would be cool to see, say, Homesick as the featured mod. Letting more people know about the classic campaigns on old.
Well, remember wikipedia's policy be bold when updating articles also applies to the Freespace Wiki.  You may want to be a little more careful about editing the pages on the modding portal and policy pages, but in general be bold. Also, remember that your user page as a "talk page" that other members can leave you a message if you are doing something that they don't like. Remember that the Freespace Wiki is a wiki, and as such every page is versioned, so it is trivial to remove a bad edit.

As for the topic, I agree that the we should treat the featured campaigns more like how wikipedia treats its featured articles, and not as yet another advertisement.  Also, it also shouldn't be up the the mod creator to update the page (though there is no reason why they cannot), there are many of people that drop by on HLP (like Raiden) that are looking for ways to contribute and updating the wiki is a fantastic way to help as it helps the future and present players of FSO engine based games.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Uh, guys, we're not wikipedia and I'm not sure we even have formalized rules, much less their rules. We just don't want our featured campaign article to look crappy. :P
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Offline Iss Mneur

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Uh, guys, we're not wikipedia and I'm not sure we even have formalized rules, much less their rules. We just don't want our featured campaign article to look crappy. :P
Very true, but that is no reason that just anyone cannot be improving the wiki, because as I said before that is what a wiki is for, the community to improve.
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Offline Mobius

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Are you sure about that? As far as I know, most Wikipedia rules also apply to the FreeSpace Wiki. :confused:
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Offline Snail

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Are you sure about that? As far as I know, most Wikipedia rules also apply to the FreeSpace Wiki. :confused:
Only the ones that actually make sense. ;)