Author Topic: In-mission subspace jump  (Read 12261 times)

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Offline CommanderDJ

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In-mission subspace jump
Hey all,
In a normal situation I would look through other people's mission files to try and find a solution, but at this point in time I would rather get a direct answer. How would an in-mission subspace jump be FREDded? Like, having a ship (this is both for other ships and the player) jump from one part of the level to another in-mission? I know it involves the warp-effect SEXP, but that's all my mind can summon up atm, I'm quite tired. So yeah. Can someone who is awesomer at FREDding than me pl0x explain? Thanks a bunchload.

CommanderDJ
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline Snail

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
It involves the warp-effect SEXP, fade to white, set-mission-subspace (optional) and use of coordinate manipulation SEXPs.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Warp effect created with relative coordinates, some way to lock the player's controls out, use of the flash-hud-gauge SEXP to flash the warpout gauge, play-sound-from-file to play the warpout spoolup sound, fade to white, set-mission-subspace, fade back to white (maybe some screenshake on entry and exit too), set player ship coordinates to new position, move any NPC ships to new position or create new versions of them and copy damage.

 

Offline CommanderDJ

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Lol, that's awesome. Ah, yes, I forgot about coordinate manipulation SEXPs.

Is there a way to do it for other ships? Like, the player watches as a ship enters subspace then exits about 20K away. Or would I have to create two different ships for that?
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Lol, that's awesome. Ah, yes, I forgot about coordinate manipulation SEXPs.

Is there a way to do it for other ships? Like, the player watches as a ship enters subspace then exits about 20K away. Or would I have to create two different ships for that?

You can do it with one (that's how it was done in War in Heaven), or simply use new ships with the same name followed by a # sign and a number. The second method (used in Vassago's Dirge) is much easier; simply set the first ship to depart, then have its copy arrive at the desired location and fire a copy-damage SEXP.

 

Offline CommanderDJ

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
You can do it with one (that's how it was done in War in Heaven).

Lol, believe it or not, I haven't actually played any of the BP campaigns. I plan to do that right after my exams.
Would you mind going through the one ship method? I want to learnz stuff, and don't mind in-depth discussion, if it's needed. Up to you though.
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Once you know what you're doing, it's not all too hard to understand (now, I might present this differently than more experienced persons on the forum, but it's still a way to do it).

You'd need to start out with several SEXPs: one that locks player controls so they can't move out of the way and mess up the sequence (visually, at least), one to create-warp-effect, one to flash the jump out HUD gauge, and one to play the warp-out sound effect.  All of those will fire before the jump officially happens, and timing is going to be important.

When you've got that part down, you're probably going to need a very brief fade-out to white SEXP (I'm not totally sure about that.  The warp effect might block vision enough to pull it off without it), and a change-coordinates SEXP.  Be sure to set-facing the direction you want it to be.  Unlock player controls, and the player has 'jumped.'

For AI ships, you can do the 'jump' one of two ways.  Way one takes the existing ships and uses coordinate manipulation to bring them to roughly the same area as the player (be sure to use create-warp-effect with relative coordinates to the ship, or it'll look like they just disappeared and/or reappeared).  As a precaution, I'd clear orders to make sure they don't end up chasing after a ship that is now several hundred or thousand kilometers away.

Way two is a little more simple from a jumping perspective, but more complex from a units standpoint.  Instead of using coordinate manipulation, just have the first ship jump out, and have a ship with hidden characters in its name jump in near the player.  In order to make damage carry over, use the copy-damage SEXP Battuta was talking about.

NOTE:  Understand that this is from someone who has never actually FREDed a player jump in mission.

  

Offline CommanderDJ

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Once you know what you're doing, it's not all too hard to understand (now, I might present this differently than more experienced persons on the forum, but it's still a way to do it).

You'd need to start out with several SEXPs: one that locks player controls so they can't move out of the way and mess up the sequence (visually, at least), one to create-warp-effect, one to flash the jump out HUD gauge, and one to play the warp-out sound effect.  All of those will fire before the jump officially happens, and timing is going to be important.

When you've got that part down, you're probably going to need a very brief fade-out to white SEXP (I'm not totally sure about that.  The warp effect might block vision enough to pull it off without it), and a change-coordinates SEXP.  Be sure to set-facing the direction you want it to be.  Unlock player controls, and the player has 'jumped.'

For AI ships, you can do the 'jump' one of two ways.  Way one takes the existing ships and uses coordinate manipulation to bring them to roughly the same area as the player (be sure to use create-warp-effect with relative coordinates to the ship, or it'll look like they just disappeared and/or reappeared).  As a precaution, I'd clear orders to make sure they don't end up chasing after a ship that is now several hundred or thousand kilometers away.

Way two is a little more simple from a jumping perspective, but more complex from a units standpoint.  Instead of using coordinate manipulation, just have the first ship jump out, and have a ship with hidden characters in its name jump in near the player.  In order to make damage carry over, use the copy-damage SEXP Battuta was talking about.

NOTE:  Understand that this is from someone who has never actually FREDed a player jump in mission.

That is a well-worded, concise, easy to understand summary! Thank you very much!

I'm guessing making the player use AI would serve as a substitute for locking out the controls? Although I'm not too familiar with how the whole AI thing works... lol.
But seriously, thanks for the brilliant rundown! I will definitely be referring back to that once I actually get to FREDding the mission in question.
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Scotty skipped a few steps. You'll want to play the warp spoolup sound from a table, flash the 'subspace drive engaged' HUD gauge, and (optionally) move the player into subspace for a little while. You may also want to create another warp effect behind the player at the arrival destination to provide the illusion of exiting a vortex on the far end.

You're also going to want to lock player perspective to internal for the duration of the jump or it'll look bad.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
You'd need to start out with several SEXPs: one that locks player controls so they can't move out of the way and mess up the sequence (visually, at least), one to create-warp-effect, one to flash the jump out HUD gauge, and one to play the warp-out sound effect.  All of those will fire before the jump officially happens, and timing is going to be important.

:P

Although I did miss the create-warp-effect at destination.

The duration doesn't really need to be more than getting through the created warp effect and the quick coord jump.  Sure, you can make it cool by entering subspace and stuff, but it's optional for the effect to work.

Actually, I think the create-warp-effect at destination could be optional as well.  The retail campaign has several missions start when you're assumed to have warped in, but with no effect.  See: Into the Lion's Den.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Pretty much what Battuta said on his first post, with the difference that I think mission-set-subspace should be used only to represent intersystem jumps, because intrasystem ones are canonically known to be istantaneous.
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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Citation please?
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Quote from: FreeSpace Reference Bible
Intra-system subspace travel is nearly instantaneous, and requires relatively little energy input to enable.  Most of the GTA’s advanced fighters are equipped with intra-system jump motivators, allowing them to travel at will within a given star system.  There is little or no restriction on the beginning and end points of such a subspace “hop,” except that they be in the same star system.

I did not remember that "nearly". Well, it kind of suggests that a short fade out to white is the most appropriate choice. Still not sure if showing subspace for more than 1 second is plausible when it comes to intrasystem jumps.
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Offline The E

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Rule of Cool > Rule of Perception > Canon accuracy in these things.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Quote from: FreeSpace Reference Bible
Intra-system subspace travel is nearly instantaneous, and requires relatively little energy input to enable.  Most of the GTA’s advanced fighters are equipped with intra-system jump motivators, allowing them to travel at will within a given star system.  There is little or no restriction on the beginning and end points of such a subspace “hop,” except that they be in the same star system.

I did not remember that "nearly". Well, it kind of suggests that a short fade out to white is the most appropriate choice. Still not sure if showing subspace for more than 1 second is plausible when it comes to intrasystem jumps.

People can do whatever they like in their missions. I like to believe that intrasystem jumps take a few seconds because of the Belisarius, and because it opens up more design options, but that doesn't mean I think everybody has to do it that way.

 
Re: In-mission subspace jump
It's also infered that the shivans that blow up the plato are the same ones that blow up the aten.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
:mad: I think you meant to use "implied" there.  (And you didn't even spell "inferred" right. :doubt:)

Anyway, I don't think that's implied at all; it could be a different group of fighters.

A better example IMHO would be the Nemesis nanojumping in INFR1.

 
Re: In-mission subspace jump
I was drunk!
:P
And...the implication comes from it being the exact same combination and makeup of ships that jump back in :p
I don't expect them to be the same in fred though..
And.... INFR1 isn't canon!
.......And hangovershowertime :p
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Nanojumping (which, as stated, isn't canon) requires a lot of energy and advanced tech. It's not exactly the same as jumping to another place and then jumping back.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: In-mission subspace jump
Rule of Cool > Rule of Perception > Canon accuracy in these things.

Only if it isn't an immersion breaker.
Staring at the swirly subspace tunnel too long for an intrasystem jump would do that, at least for me.
(´・ω・`)
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