Author Topic: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox  (Read 6019 times)

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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Why is art pretentious? If a picture of colored soup cans is art, how is something like FreeSpace (or Dragon Age, or Shadow of the Colossus) not art?
Some of us would argue that colored soup cans aren't art...and they're on the benign side of things.  I saw an "exhibition" in a museum I was in recently that consisted of twisted piles of shop lights and blinds. :p

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Anyone who thinks games can't be art clearly hasn't played ICO. :p
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I think the point that UnknownTarget is trying to make is that games were never intended to be art. They were created for fun, for enjoyment, for blowing **** up. Not to be works of art. So that should be the core of the game, the ability to be fun, not to impress people with awesome graphics.

These days though, the devs place a lot of emphasis on pretty graphics that sometimes they lose track that games are just supposed to be fun. There's no point in having scenery porn if your gameplay feels as weak as a training laser.

Having a good story, excellent graphics and beautiful music is just the icing on the cake. So saying that you don't believe a game will be able to impress with graphics is like saying you think the Prometheus is useless cause it doesn't shoot cool looking bolts. It's important but you're focussing on the wrong thing. At the end of the day, gameplay should be what matters the most, though it does boil down to personal preference.

... Okay, that went into a slight rant.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Movies were never intended to be works of art either, but some of them had just the amount of epicness to qualify for it.


Personally I think maybe we should consider a few mods art like Transcend and Blue Planet.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.

I argued something like this before. Games aren't art because art is not supposed to have an express purpose. To be considered a game, an interactive thing must be fun. Otherwise it's not a game. If it's trying to be fun then it's a game, if it's simply existing to allow the user to interact with something so that they can assimilate some sort of point or lesson, then it could be considered art.


I would also like to know why no one argues for board games to be art.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.

I argued something like this before. Games aren't art because art is not supposed to have an express purpose. To be considered a game, an interactive thing must be fun. Otherwise it's not a game. If it's trying to be fun then it's a game, if it's simply existing to allow the user to interact with something so that they can assimilate some sort of point or lesson, then it could be considered art.


I would also like to know why no one argues for board games to be art.

Again, fallacy of the excluded middle. Pulp Fiction is clearly art, yet it is also fun. Calvin and Hobbes is trying to be funny yet it is definitely art.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
You missed what I said though - it's not what it is, it's why it was created. Movies do not have to generate box office earnings or be entertaining to be considered "movies". A movie is just a sequence of pictures. A comic strip does not necessarily have to be funny to be considered a "comic" - it's just sequential images in in order that may or may not tell a story. To be a game, the definition is that;

"an amusement or pastime". That's what it is. It HAS to be amusing, fun, or trying to be either to be considered a "game". Otherwise, it's interactive media.

Also, on the bit about the excluded middle; what about my point about boardgames? If games are legitimately art (they're not), then what about board games? Is Snakes n' Ladders "art"?

 

Offline The E

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Now you're pulling a "no true scotsman". Games created for artistic value are not games, because a game is always created with the intent to entertain?

And for your boardgame argument, I would invite you to the many, many versions of the basic chess pieces around. Are you going to tell us that none of them are art?

To quote Penny Arcade, how can something that has been created by hundreds of artists working in concert not be art on some level?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Chess is arguably art. Go is very arguably art.

Shadow of the Colossus is art.

Intentionality is irrelevant. What matters is the effect on the viewer, reader, or player. I say fallacy of the excluded middle because it is fallacious to assume that intending something to be fun excludes any possibility of it being art. Pulp Fiction is intended to be fun, but it is also art - pop art, but definitely art.

Shadow of the Colossus is intended to be fun. It is fun. It is also art, and probably intended to be art. Same goes for Ico. Same goes for World of Goo. Same goes for FreeSpace 2 and some of its fan-made campaigns even more so.

I don't buy the Ebert argument that interactivity precludes artistry.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
http://kotaku.com/5629782/duke-nukem-forever-impressions-two-girls-one-duke

Looks like this is our old Duke. the one we know and love...Love hte self-referencing humor.
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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Duke is back.  Hail to the King, baby!
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I remember at the very end of Duke 3D atomic edition they said something about "look for a duke 3d sequel soon". That was 1997. :nervous: Better late then never?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Hades

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I...have hope.

Wow.
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
Seems more like the Blizzard time scale.

And for the gentlemen discussing about art, interactive media and its relevance to games, maybe this isn't the thread for it.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
Seems more like the Blizzard time scale.

And for the gentlemen discussing about art, interactive media and its relevance to games, maybe this isn't the thread for it.

Maybe this isn't the thread for YOU

gauntlet!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Maybe this isn't the thread for YOU

gauntlet!

Very well.
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Quote from: The Thread
Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox

Given the moderation has been incredibly twitchy about remaining on-topic in recent days and even showed a tendancy to split and lock things that are technically on topic but which some members of the thread insist aren't (like, say, the suspicious splitting and locking of all criticims in Inferno)...

...You're pissin' Duke off.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
I am the law.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p