[NGTM-1R]

having said that BP does start at a logical point for a FS3 if it was ever to be made to have started especially with the closing cutscenes from FS2 mentioning the Knossos research

The next person who says that is going to get kicked in the crotch, since there's nothing logical about a war between Sol and the rest of the humanity. All humans; many relatives on each side, living relatives, many commonalities of thought and life and purpose. Brother against brother takes a grand cause indeed, and the odds are better that it won't be there when it's needed then they are that it will.

Even writing a story about a fragmented Solar System is silly since it assumes First Fleet is incompetent enough to allow military yards and ships to fall into civilian hands. Space warfare does not lend itself to guerilla action considering the logistical and productive demands. If First Fleet can seize or destroy all sources of military hulls, it wins by default.

Even BP is actually writing about a war between Ubuntu and the rest of humanity, not one between Sol and the rest of humanity.

[General Battuta]

Kick me in the crotch.

I think the odds are very high that :V: would have put a GTVA-Sol war into FS3. It's just the logical place to draw a new conflict.

l humans; many relatives on each side, living relatives, many commonalities of thought and life and purpose. B

A nice dream, but that describes every war we've fought so far. They still seem to happen juuuuust fine.

The justifications present in every post-Capella campaign for the various circumstances they present are far from silly; though I understand your points about First Fleet, most of the aforementioned fiction handles it pretty neatly.

[bahijal74]

lol my basic point seems to have gone poof lol..MY GOD WHATA DAy....ugh stupid new people..some manae....ARGH so anyone else able to add to the original questions?

[NGTM-1R]

A nice dream, but that describes every war we've fought so far. They still seem to happen juuuuust fine.

Only if you conveniently ignore the next line.

This is, at least as far as the GTVA would be concerned, brother against brother. The entire opening narration of FS2 basically craps all over your statement.

Sol is a logical place to draw a new conflict, but that does not mean the conflict is going to be human against human. It's not an FS game without Shivans, and we've pretty well exhausted the Shivans-from-nowhere-in-the-middle-of-something-else technique by the end of FS2. They probably wouldn't have pulled it again. FS3 would more likely open with the Shivans already in play somehow, for one side of the exchange or for the other. Perhaps an "out of Sol" to save the remainder of the Terran race. Perhaps an "into Sol" to save Earth. Either option makes far more sense in terms of telling a new story and a final conclusion to the Shivan conflict that has dominated FS storytelling.

INFR1 came closest to a reasonable justification for a GTVA-Sol war by having Sol start it.

The justifications present in every post-Capella campaign for the various circumstances they present are far from silly; though I understand your points about First Fleet, most of the aforementioned fiction handles it pretty neatly.

Oh sure, S:AH is a great campaign to play, but it and INFA (which isn't) are simple handwaves ("we're here to save our Neptunian brothers!" Well that's great, but where the **** did you come from?) that really make no sense about how Sol got that way. Very few other campaigns present a view of a war in Sol aside from TVWP, which doesn't touch on this subject.

[The E]

Battuta, NGTM-1R, if you wish to discuss this further, do it elsewhere.

[General Battuta]

*snip*

While I appreciate your urge to flip standard wisdom and then look for reasons the opposite may be true - it's good to have a devil's advocate - the fact is you're arguing against three very big pieces of canonical information.

The GTA was described as having limited sociopolitical power.

The collapse of the node immediately led to fragmentation of all power structures outside Sol.

FS2 techroom entries make it clear that radical social and political change would need to occur within Sol.

Weak central government in the absence of war, no major unify force, and tremendous change? It doesn't necessarily lead to war, but it provides a reasonable justification for a story involving it.

FS3 would probably have opened with a Terran civil war, moved into an Alliance-versus-Shivan conflict, and ended on another cliffhanger akin to FS1 and FS2.

[Solatar]

Plus, a peaceful reconciliation isn't a very fun campaign to play...

[General Battuta]

Indeed. The FS2 Earth techroom entry was a Chekov's gun thing. Now, if it works for your campaign you're free to ignore or reinterpret it; I'm not here to advocate a single hegemonistic interpretation of canon.

[Mobius]

In Your Opinion, Battuta. In Your Opinion. I'm also a fan of the Sol Vs. GTVA concept (and I've been one before joining Inferno) but I can't be 100% sure would have started FS3 with a Sol-GTVA war. FS2 started with the NTF rebellion and then culminated with the Second Shivan Incursion, so it would have been a bit cliche to add yet another civil war followed by a third conflict with the Shivans.

The whole Sol Vs. GTVA war makes sense, a lot of sense, but it's the way too predictable and shows poor originality.

[General Battuta]

I've never claimed it wasn't in my opinion. My opinion's just better because of my innate superiority.

[NGTM-1R]

Plus, a peaceful reconciliation isn't a very fun campaign to play...

Hence Shivans.

Besides, just because it's peaceful from above doesn't mean it's peaceful down below. You might recall a mission named "Silence All Voices"...

While I appreciate your urge to flip standard wisdom and then look for reasons the opposite may be true - it's good to have a devil's advocate - the fact is you're arguing against three very big pieces of canonical information.

The GTA was described as having limited sociopolitical power.

The collapse of the node immediately led to fragmentation of all power structures outside Sol.

FS2 techroom entries make it clear that radical social and political change would need to occur within Sol.

Weak central government in the absence of war, no major unify force, and tremendous change? It doesn't necessarily lead to war, but it provides a reasonable justification for a story involving it.

FS3 would probably have opened with a Terran civil war, moved into an Alliance-versus-Shivan conflict, and ended on another cliffhanger akin to FS1 and FS2.

In the Reference bible, yes. In the games, not really. Now while the reference bible is a cherished source it's also deutrocanonical at best.

There is no immediate on it, unless you reject Silent Threat. In fact, the GTA even managed to continue existing after the breakup. You are attempting to equate a situation where dispersed logistical needs and jump nodes make a breakaway of significant military forces possible to one where neither exist.

It is true that FS2's Tech Room says this. However, it is also irrevelant to the point. First Fleet controls all existing spaceborne military assets in Sol. If they say there's not going to be a war then there's not going to be a war. Sol's government can fall and reorgnize all it wants. Violence is totally unnecessary to this. The fact remains only a single party has weapons and the means to deliever them, and it is in their interest to keep it that way.

[Mobius]

I've never claimed it wasn't in my opinion. My opinion's just better because of my supposed pseudosuperiority.

Corrected.

Sol forces and the GTVA fighting the Shivans first and another sentient species then is also a credible scenario, because we know that:

The Shivans are merely a symptom of a much bigger problem...

[General Battuta]

Did the lobotomy hurt? How do they get a sense of humor out of there anyway? Is it a very advanced procedure?

I would bet my left testicle that Volition would not have been dumb enough to make that problem a BIGGER BADDERER SPECIES. The Shivans have been set up as the ultimate xenocidal menace; slotting somebody new into the role would bring nothing to the series, but it would significantly cheapen what came before.

I think the FS1 outro establishes a nice problem that the Shivans are a symptom of. They're an answer to the Fermi paradox and at the same time a solution to it.

[NGTM-1R]

Corrected.

Sol forces and the GTVA fighting the Shivans first and another sentient species then is also a credible scenario, because we know that:

blahblah

EDITED OTHER POST

Sadly, I'd write the same about you a lot.

Also, that is the worst, most creatively bankrupt answer to the Shivan question anyone's ever devised. Even when you Mindgames it up, it's still chocolate frosting on a turd.

[General Battuta]

It is true that FS2's Tech Room says this. However, it is also irrevelant to the point. First Fleet controls all existing spaceborne military assets in Sol. If they say there's not going to be a war then there's not going to be a war. Sol's government can fall and reorgnize all it wants. Violence is totally unnecessary to this. The fact remains only a single party has weapons and the means to deliever them, and it is in their interest to keep it that way.

BP canon quite neatly postulates how First Fleet ceases to exist without any need for violence whatsoever.

[NGTM-1R]

BP canon quite neatly postulates how First Fleet ceases to exist without any need for violence whatsoever.

Considering we were discussing the fragmention of Sol leading to a war in Sol, that's not relevant either.

[General Battuta]

BP canon quite neatly postulates how First Fleet ceases to exist without any need for violence whatsoever.

Considering we were discussing the fragmention of Sol leading to a war in Sol, that's not relevant either.

No we weren't. We were discussing the possibility of an intra-Terran civil war post-FS2, or as you yourself put it

there's nothing logical about a war between Sol and the rest of the humanity

[NGTM-1R]

No we weren't. We were discussing the possibility of an intra-Terran civil war post-FS2, or as you yourself put it

there's nothing logical about a war between Sol and the rest of the humanity

Even writing a story about a fragmented Solar System is silly since it assumes First Fleet is incompetent enough to allow military yards and ships to fall into civilian hands. Space warfare does not lend itself to guerilla action considering the logistical and productive demands. If First Fleet can seize or destroy all sources of military hulls, it wins by default.

You missed the secondary thesis this whole time?

[General Battuta]

I saw it. No one - including you - bothered to say much about it.

[NGTM-1R]

I saw it. No one - including you - bothered to say much about it.

Even writing a story about a fragmented Solar System is silly

Sure I didn't.

I mean, it's not like we just talked about it or anything.