Author Topic: So uh...  (Read 8313 times)

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Offline Spoon

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Of course people are allowed to say they didn't liked it. But really now, if you start a new topic just for the sake of saying "I didn't liked it" then I start to wonder what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you want to hear other people agreeing with you? Do you want to start a "People who dislike WoD club"?
Now if there was constructive critism in there of any kind, then there would be something for me to reply to.

Well in any case, I'm happy there are plenty of people that Do like it  :)
Thanks guys for the support
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Quote
Of course people are allowed to say they didn't liked it. But really now, if you start a new topic just for the sake of saying "I didn't liked it" then I start to wonder what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you want to hear other people agreeing with you? Do you want to start a "People who dislike WoD club"?
Now if there was constructive critism in there of any kind, then there would be something for me to reply to.
Yeah, that's true.

Sorry mate, I didn't really think that one through.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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See, I think part of the reason Wings of Dawn is almost indisputably good is that if you removed every character name, reduced all the dialogue to simple instructions, and changed all the ships into variously sized boxes, it'd STILL be fun. Because the mission design was fresh, the tasks you're asked to perform are entertaining, and the music is groovin'.

I can't even usually take anime seriously because I'm spoiled by stuff like Iain Banks which tends to tackle a lot of the same themes with more maturity, but I liked WoD.

I'm supposed to take sci-fi anime seriously? Wooops.

(I love anime, especially sci-fi ones, but I don't think I've taken any but GitS seriously, since GitS is very mature. Again, like you, I'm spoiled by too many good sci-fi writers.)

Anyways, Noodle, I really enjoyed WoD - as you can see by the fact I got involved with the one-man team shortly after release.
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You set it up as something of an anime homage, but all I see is a giant grab-bag of the worst cliches, some exclusive to anime, some just general cliches. I nearly threw up at the 'space elves who view humans as a brash young race in need of guidance' part. Talk about one of the most irritating and insufferable tropes out there. Not to mention that like 70% of the cast is female, all of whom are one fanservicy archetype or other.  And all drawn in that particular misguided weeaboo style that thinks that just throwing in big eyes and brightly colored hair makes it look authentically Japanese. It doesn't, and it looks terrible.

Some nice mission design in there, I appreciate all the new ships and weapons, but it's all covered in a layer of the worst kind of anime fandom that I just couldn't get past.

So what exactly would you expect out of an anime-themed mod to make it enjoyable? I think that sort of information would be more beneficial to the WoD development team and for discussion in general.

 

Offline Quanto

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I don't think noodle even gave a **** about this thread that he started.
He just wanted to stir up the bee hive. Which he actually probably did.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 
I don't think noodle even gave a **** about this thread that he started.
He just wanted to stir up the bee hive. Which he actually probably did.

He doesn't come across as trolling, he comes across as a guy who likes anime a little too much and probably hoped for a certain type of story but found a story in the end that did not appeal to his tastes. Which is why I asked him whether what sort of story and characters he would want to see out of an anime-inspired mod.

 

Offline Qent

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I can't explain it, but I got a really positive vibe from noodle's post.

Even if it wasn't directly constructive, how can it not be helpful to know who didn't like it and why?

In fact, I don't believe that constructive criticism is even possible in this case, because I got the sense that noodle dislikes WoD's whole concept, not the execution.

 

Offline Spoon

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I can't explain it, but I got a really positive vibe from noodle's post.
Care to point out where you are seeing anything positive then?

Even if it wasn't directly constructive, how can it not be helpful to know who didn't like it and why?
Because dear sir, it is not motivating to see someone to go through the effort to create a topic to just tell you:
Quote
You set it up as something of an anime homage, but all I see is a giant grab-bag of the worst cliches, some exclusive to anime, some just general cliches. I nearly threw up at the 'space elves who and so on and so on.

Zero. Positivity.

In fact, I don't believe that constructive criticism is even possible in this case, because I got the sense that noodle dislikes WoD's whole concept, not the execution
Again, I ask
Quote
if you start a new topic just for the sake of saying "I didn't liked it" then I start to wonder what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you want to hear other people agreeing with you? Do you want to start a "People who dislike WoD club"?

In any case, noodle doesn't even bother replying any more, so in my book he's just attempted a failed troll, meaning I'm gonna lock this thread in a few hours from now.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline -Norbert-

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[...]
I can't even usually take anime seriously because I'm spoiled by stuff like Iain Banks which tends to tackle a lot of the same themes with more maturity, but I liked WoD.

First off, this isn't meant offensive or anything, just a little encouragement to go looking for all the good stuff you seem to have misses so far ;)

Unless that "usually" hides a lot, you don't seem to know much about Anime. There are of course happy-go-lucky anime, but there are also plenty of "grim-dark" anime made for mature audiance.
Just take one anime series that WoD has lots of ties with (for example the majority of music) Gundam 00.
Since these things only come out bit by bit throughout both seasons of Gundam 00 I decided to spoiler-tag it:
Spoiler:
In there one of the main characters once was brainwashed into being a child guerillia whos best friend commited a suicide bombing in Ireland and that character even shot his own parents in order to "become one of gods chosen warriors".
Another main character lost his parents and little sister to the aforementioned bombing.
Yet another main character was experimented on as a child to turn him into a "super soldier", which resulted, among other things, in him having a split personality with one of them being a remorseless killer who enjoys meting out death.
Then there would be Elfen Lied, which occasionally has a little bit of humor tossed in, but is a very sad and very brutal setting (but great stroy, the manga even more so than the anime).
I also heard lots of good about Jinro, but unfortunately havn't been able to get the DVD or even a download anywere.... but it's also supposed to be very dark and depressing atmosphere.
In short, every kind of atmosphere that was ever used in "real" films you'll also find in animes, but most of the more adult stuff (and I don't mean hentai aka anime porn) doesn't make it over to europe and america unfortunately.
Also I have yet to see any anime movies in a cinema around here that wasn't made for small children  :mad2: The chances for the Gundam 00 movie to be shown in Austria are exactly 0  :hopping:

Anyway back to topic: I can see why someone who likes certain anime series and films doesn't like the atmosphere of the start of WoD or the characters, but that he just gives such a comment shows that the didn't take the time to completely play it through. While the characters keep a very positive attitude, the atmosphere itself darkens quite a bit throughout the campaign.
But regardless of all that it isn't so much what he said, but how and were he said it that's offensive. Making a polite post in the release thread is one thing. Opening a new thread with a post like his is quite another....

 

Offline Qent

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I can't explain it, but I got a really positive vibe from noodle's post.
Care to point out where you are seeing anything positive then?
TBH it was more a feeling I got than something he said, but okay:
Am I the only one who didn't like WoD?

Because I really didn't. At all.
Wow, someone who dislikes WoD? That alone makes the mod seem more "real" somehow.

You set it up as something of an anime homage, but all I see is a giant grab-bag of the worst cliches, some exclusive to anime, some just general cliches. I nearly threw up at the 'space elves who view humans as a brash young race in need of guidance' part. Talk about one of the most irritating and insufferable tropes out there. Not to mention that like 70% of the cast is female, all of whom are one fanservicy archetype or other.  And all drawn in that particular misguided weeaboo style that thinks that just throwing in big eyes and brightly colored hair makes it look authentically Japanese. It doesn't, and it looks terrible.
Okay, so he dislikes it for the same reasons that everyone else likes it. So WoD isn't for everyone. Who said it should be? This fills out the critical response to WoD in a way that is both useful and grounded in reality.

Some nice mission design in there, I appreciate all the new ships and weapons, but it's all covered in a layer of the worst kind of anime fandom that I just couldn't get past.
Some explicit positivity! And finally a summary of noodle's dislike that makes me think that he also dislikes anime in general. EDIT: Probably false, judging from other posts.

I do not like anime in general, and I don't know enough about it to know whether "WoD isn't authentic anime" is insulting, since that's a plus in my book. But someone disliking WoD for what it is shouldn't be discouraging, since it's not as if you did it wrong or something.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 11:07:51 am by Qent »

 

Offline Ypoknons

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I think it's been said that even without the anime allusions, WoD is a fun and innovative campaign. So even if you don't like anime, or don't like some stylistic elements, you're still missing out if you don't it a chance. The anime elements is not only thing that makes WoD fun. So my response to noodle is sure, maybe some elements get on your nerves, but chill out mate, and enjoy.

My personal feeling is that they're too much fixation on the 'anime' label. It's all entertainment, whatever format, wherever it's from, let works stand on their own merits.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 09:38:12 am by Ypoknons »
Long time ago, you see, there was this thing called the VBB and... oh, nevermind.

 

Offline Mobius

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There's no such thing as a perfect campaign: all great names in campaign design can attract a lot of criticism from various standpoints. As Qent indirectly said, things person X doesn't like in a campaign may be the reason why person Y loves that campaign.
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Offline General Battuta

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I think it's been said that even without the anime allusions, WoD is a fun and innovative campaign. So even if you don't like anime, or don't like some stylistic elements, you're still missing out if you don't it a chance. The anime elements is not only thing that makes WoD fun.

qft'd

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Ah, I see noodle now:

DANCE MY LITTLE PUPPETS, DANCEEEEEEEEE
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Ypoknons

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Even if the op is a troll, which I don't believe, I think we are having an rational conversation here.
Long time ago, you see, there was this thing called the VBB and... oh, nevermind.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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You set it up as something of an anime homage, but all I see is a giant grab-bag of the worst cliches, some exclusive to anime, some just general cliches. I nearly threw up at the 'space elves who view humans as a brash young race in need of guidance' part. Talk about one of the most irritating and insufferable tropes out there. Not to mention that like 70% of the cast is female, all of whom are one fanservicy archetype or other.  And all drawn in that particular misguided weeaboo style that thinks that just throwing in big eyes and brightly colored hair makes it look authentically Japanese. It doesn't, and it looks terrible.

Some nice mission design in there, I appreciate all the new ships and weapons, but it's all covered in a layer of the worst kind of anime fandom that I just couldn't get past.

I doubt you really nearly threw up, and hyperbole in criticism is always really suspect. However I also question your objectivity, considering that's not really the major theme of the Cryvan experience. The major theme of Cryvan-Human relations has been more along the lines of "Screw You Elves" then "Our Elves Are Better", which remains fairly fresh and is the exact opposite of the trope you're complaining about. I can only conclude you didn't pay attention to the background, or the snappy rejoinder Miszuzu always gave to Crystal pontificating.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fanservice archetypes (to my knowledge nobody's actually collected and set them out anywhere, and in any case I'm not seeing much of several of the old fanservice standbys; none of the girls are particularly moe if you catch my drift, nor do we have much in the way of thighhighs and short skirts, nor glasses.) The style you describe, furthermore, is a legitimate anime style, having been used for such shows as Digimon and Pokemon. I'm not terribly au fait with it myself, but it has been used for legit anime productions so call it "misguided weeaboo style" is at best deceptive. Spoon's artwork is actually much better than the shows I just cited from a number of technical standpoints no less. He's at least as good as a filler episode of Naruto. (Not much of a compliment considering they occasionally forget to add a character's head, I admit...)

Without more detail I can't judge whether or not you're really an elitest or simply playing at being one, but for the moment I have to assume you're playing at, since your knowledgebase and thoroughness appear to be rather shallow.
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Well noodle, I'm like, super glad you took the time to make a new topic to tell me this super constructive feedback  :p
And I'll look forward at your attempt at making a campaign for Freespace that is far better, with better art, less clichés and not covered in this 'layer of the worst kind of anime fandom'.

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Offline The E

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Was it really worth it to bump an 8-month old topic?
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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I just hate that argument.
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Offline The E

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Which one? Noodle's trolling? Or Spoons' sarcastic answer? Because, in essence, what you are doing is nothing but some stupid kiddy-**** trolling. IF you had posted this back in OCTOBER, it may have been relevant, but posting it 8 MONTHS after the fact is just needless trolling.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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