[Nuclear1]

Lib, it's not that his ideas are wrong, but his facts...just so boneheadedly WRONG.

That and he can't seem to go five minutes without referring to something the Federal government does as slavery, communism, Naziism, or genocidal, even when, y'know, it's not.

Seriously, anyone who calls

The Peace Corps

Seriously, the ****ing Peace Corps

a bunch of brownshirts, he's lost any and all credibility.

[NGTM-1R]

And when, exactly, did he say such things?

You mean that whole take back America pissing on MLK Jr's grave thing, you slept through it? I don't even like the guy and I saw both the repeal of the 14th Amendment and state's rights on the agenda for that and in the runup and discussed at it itself.

For Liberator's edification (since I know he's totally lost here, and doesn't realize the tyrannical federal government is a Bush thing that was inherited): State's Rights is a really stupid term to use for it since it basically equates to racial injustice and has since before the Civil War.

As for the repression of Muslims, anyone who advocates fighting the misnamed Ground Zero Mosque is attempting to violate their constitutional rights.

[BrotherBryon]

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

[Topgun]

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

[General Battuta]

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

The Army would lose a hell of a lot of recruits that way.

Immigration scares are old news. Before it was Mexicans it was Asians, before that it was the Irish and whatnot. Catholics, man, they're gonna ruin America.

[Topgun]

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

The Army would lose a hell of a lot of recruits that way.

Immigration scares are old news. Before it was Mexicans it was Asians, before that it was the Irish and whatnot. Catholics, man, they're gonna ruin America.

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

[General Battuta]

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

The Army would lose a hell of a lot of recruits that way.

Immigration scares are old news. Before it was Mexicans it was Asians, before that it was the Irish and whatnot. Catholics, man, they're gonna ruin America.

I believe he had a rant on the 14th amendment and how it was solely intended to protect the rights of the newly freed slaves and thus had been rendered obsolete in our time. This is part of his and a good portion of the Tea Parties solution for the illegal immigration question with direct concern for the children of illegals being dubbed citizens by simply being born on US soil. I can't remember if it was just him or all the Fox News morons spewing this sort of crap all over the place a couple of months back. Either way Stewert and Colbert had a field day with it.

This makes more sense, I don't see the connection between Take Back America and the 14th amendment, but I understand that Beck doesn't think children of illegal immigrants should be US citizens.
Frankly, I agree with him. If the child turns 18 and is still in the US, he should be considered a US citizen, but I think that until then, the child should have the same status as his/her parent(s).

The Army would lose a hell of a lot of recruits that way.

Immigration scares are old news. Before it was Mexicans it was Asians, before that it was the Irish and whatnot. Catholics, man, they're gonna ruin America.

Is this a case of lrn2read or lrn2minimumrecruitmentage=17? Because if they're denied citizenship until they're 18 I don't expect an enormous surge of patriotism.

[Topgun]

Ok, I see your argument now, but I still stand by what I said. This mostly has to do with my personal experience. What is worse, deporting a whole family or just the parents leaving the children with their legal family members? Personal experience says leaving the children is worse, both for the family and for the rest of society.

[General Battuta]

Ok, I see your argument now, but I still stand by what I said. This mostly has to do with my personal experience. What is worse, deporting a whole family or just the parents leaving the children with their legal family members? Personal experience says leaving the children is worse, both for the family and for the rest of society.

Sure, I see your point there. I don't know. My general sense is that the US should be extremely tolerant and accepting of immigrants out of respect for its history.

[Liberator]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

[Topgun]

Sure, I see your point there. I don't know. My general sense is that the US should be extremely tolerant and accepting of immigrants out of respect for its history.

I completely agree. The immigration system needs to be revamped, it shouldn't be so hard for people to come over here legally. In fact, the fact that so many people are coming here illegally shows two things, that its far too easy to come (and stay) here illegally, and that its far to hard for them to come legally.
There are a few very simple solutions. For example the gov't could impose a huge fine against any employer hiring illegal immigrants. It becomes cheaper for employers to hire legal employees than to hire illegal ones, illegal immigrants can't find work and they either return to their country and/or begin the immigration process.
There, one half of the problem solved, but since that would hurt both parties' constituents, it isn't going to happen.

[General Battuta]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

[Topgun]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

This doesn't mean they are respectful. The reason they work for low wages is because the wages are even lower in their country, that's if they can even find a job there. It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with survival and ambition. I am not saying they aren't, plenty are, plenty aren't, I am just saying that what you said doesn't follow.

[General Battuta]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

This doesn't mean they are respectful. The reason they work for low wages is because the wages are even lower in their country, that's if they can even find a job there. It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with survival and ambition. I am not saying they aren't, plenty are, plenty aren't, I am just saying that what you said doesn't follow.

It follows perfectly, because it's exactly the same motivation that drove every previous wave of immigrants, and the reactions we're displaying are exactly the same ones we displayed towards the Chinese, the Irish, the...you name it.

It's so bizarre. Conservative ideology centers on the value of individual enterprise and the free market. Then suddenly you get a bunch of people drawn by individual enterprise and the free market and it's all 'they need to buy into our communal ideas!'

(nb i do not identify strongly with a political orientation)

[Kosh]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

This doesn't mean they are respectful. The reason they work for low wages is because the wages are even lower in their country, that's if they can even find a job there. It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with survival and ambition. I am not saying they aren't, plenty are, plenty aren't, I am just saying that what you said doesn't follow.

It follows perfectly, because it's exactly the same motivation that drove every previous wave of immigrants, and the reactions we're displaying are exactly the same ones we displayed towards the Chinese, the Irish, the...you name it.

It's so bizarre. Conservative ideology centers on the value of individual enterprise and the free market. Then suddenly you get a bunch of people drawn by individual enterprise and the free market and it's all 'they need to buy into our communal ideas!'

(nb i do not identify strongly with a political orientation)

So we should be welcoming this?


What's happening with muslims in britain and some other parts of europe such as the case above is a stark warning for the rest of us as to what happens when immigrants are allowed to import their feudal baggage. Something is wrong when you can't criticize the backwardness and absurdity of a religion without getting death threats or on occation being murdered outright.

[Topgun]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

This doesn't mean they are respectful. The reason they work for low wages is because the wages are even lower in their country, that's if they can even find a job there. It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with survival and ambition. I am not saying they aren't, plenty are, plenty aren't, I am just saying that what you said doesn't follow.

It follows perfectly, because it's exactly the same motivation that drove every previous wave of immigrants, and the reactions we're displaying are exactly the same ones we displayed towards the Chinese, the Irish, the...you name it.

It's so bizarre. Conservative ideology centers on the value of individual enterprise and the free market. Then suddenly you get a bunch of people drawn by individual enterprise and the free market and it's all 'they need to buy into our communal ideas!'

(nb i do not identify strongly with a political orientation)

I fail to see how that proves they are respectful to the US.

[General Battuta]

But, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful back?

Seems like most immigrants are: work for miniscule wages in an environment of disrespect or outright hatred. Wonder when we forgot about the Statue of Liberty's little attendant poem.

This doesn't mean they are respectful. The reason they work for low wages is because the wages are even lower in their country, that's if they can even find a job there. It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with survival and ambition. I am not saying they aren't, plenty are, plenty aren't, I am just saying that what you said doesn't follow.

It follows perfectly, because it's exactly the same motivation that drove every previous wave of immigrants, and the reactions we're displaying are exactly the same ones we displayed towards the Chinese, the Irish, the...you name it.

It's so bizarre. Conservative ideology centers on the value of individual enterprise and the free market. Then suddenly you get a bunch of people drawn by individual enterprise and the free market and it's all 'they need to buy into our communal ideas!'

(nb i do not identify strongly with a political orientation)

I fail to see how that proves they are respectful to the US.

It means they respect the values of the US by enacting them.

[Liberator]

The first way to be respectful of a sovereign nation you are wanting to live in is to obey the laws...all of them.

[General Battuta]

The first way to be respectful of a sovereign nation you are wanting to live in is to obey the laws...all of them.

Interesting. If so most of our ancestors should have been ejected and we wouldn't be here.

[Scotty]

We kinda got around that by forming our own sovreign nation.