[S-99]

This is something i have a hard time digesting. Property taxes (as in land). Maybe different for people who live in buroughs. But, really? What's the point in slapping down say like $22,000 to buy some property that you need to pay rent on in the end? And you miss a payment for a while in property taxes, the land can be taken away. What was the point of slapping down $22,000 in the first place? Granted paying property taxes is much cheaper than renting. It's still rent in the end no matter what with needing to pay taxes on property you own.

In this case it's not owning, it's just cheaper than living in an apartment. What up with this so called american right to be able to own land and how it has changed? My country's becoming more communistic by the minute.

[Bobboau]

welcome to the tea party.

[DarkBasilisk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
Notice the US is nowhere near the top of the list.

I see no problem. In fact I prefer that the street lights work, the roads don't look like total crap, etc. On a family trip we crossed state lines from our home into another state with lesser tax revenue, and you could literally see a demarcation along the state line because of how crappy the highway was on the other side.

[Mefustae]

Indeed. It's not like the money taxed is simply gone. It goes into civil services and upkeep. At most, there's only about 30-40% outright gone due to red tape, general bureaucratic fees, and corruption.

Paying tax sucks, but I find it easier to swallow when I know the money I'm sacrificing is helping those around me.[/ubersmug]

[Ghostavo]

This is something i have a hard time digesting. Property taxes (as in land). Maybe different for people who live in buroughs. But, really? What's the point in slapping down say like $22,000 to buy some property that you need to pay rent on in the end? And you miss a payment for a while in property taxes, the land can be taken away. What was the point of slapping down $22,000 in the first place? Granted paying property taxes is much cheaper than renting. It's still rent in the end no matter what with needing to pay taxes on property you own.

In this case it's not owning, it's just cheaper than living in an apartment. What up with this so called american right to be able to own land and how it has changed? My country's becoming more communistic by the minute.

Property taxes existed since before the american revolution and have existed throughout its history, how is the country becoming more communist?

[Pred the Penguin]

It's rather the need to own a house that's the problem I think.

[MP-Ryan]

Your property taxes finance the upkeep of infrastructure, including roads, water lines, and sewer systems, local community programs (including garbage and recycling), local policing and fire department, and various other initiatives that benefit you directly.

Now, unless you'd rather pay for those services directly (enjoy the potholes and no working water/sewer service!) I'd suggest you just learn to live with them.  Property taxes, along with sales taxes, are one of their fairest tax systems because they bill the consumer of their services directly for them.

And on the notion of your country becoming more "communistic" (which taxes have nothing to do with, FYI, learn about what communism actually is before you make silly assertions), you might be interested to know that 92-odd percent of Americans favor a social model closer to that of Sweden than what they have in the United States.

Those I suppose if you really don't like it you can always move to Afghanistan - apparently the officials there can be bribed to do almost anything.  Though the bribes probably cost more than your property taxes anyway.

[Nuke]

Your property taxes finance the upkeep of infrastructure, including roads, water lines, and sewer systems, local community programs (including garbage and recycling), local policing and fire department, and various other initiatives that benefit you directly.

Now, unless you'd rather pay for those services directly (enjoy the potholes and no working water/sewer service!) I'd suggest you just learn to live with them.  Property taxes, along with sales taxes, are one of their fairest tax systems because they bill the consumer of their services directly for them.

that would make sense, except you have to pay for garbage, sewage, water, gas, electricity, etc on a monthly basis on top of your property tax. those bills should cover their respective infrastructure. i can understand police fire and local road systems (shouldn't car taxes cover those), but you still have to pay property taxes in areas where you dont have anything. people i know in the alaskan bush get taxed big time, with no infrastructure at all for those taxes to pay for. i kinda think you should get what you pay for. if theres anything i dont like about the tax system, its the 50 million different kinds of taxes you end up paying. i very much doubt anyone can list all the taxes you could end up paying in america, theres that many of them. still the only two certainties in life are death and taxes. this is why i think the world needs to be nuked (of course then everyone would need to pay nuke tax).

[Nuclear1]

Now, unless you'd rather pay for those services directly

Funny you should mention that...

My country's becoming more communistic by the minute.

plzlrn2communist

ur doin it wrong

At first I thought you were just giving us our daily serving of yummy yummy poeslaw, but I srsly think you don't know what communism is.

[NGTM-1R]

S-99 has made a career of displaying his ignorance on the forum.

[Whitelight]

Where I live, land taxes help the school system buy new books to give my grandchildren an education. Also pays for there transportation to and from school.  Yes its an old system, but it works. 

[FUBAR-BDHR]

And you just hit my big beef with property taxes.  Schools.  I choose not to have kids so why should I have to pay for schools while a majority of the people that have kids in the school district where I live don't pay a penny in property tax because they are in low income housing?

I don't think anyone should have the right to vote on property taxes unless they pay them or pay rent to someone that does. 

[Whitelight]

And you just hit my big beef with property taxes.  Schools.  I choose not to have kids so why should I have to pay for schools while a majority of the people that have kids in the school district where I live don't pay a penny in property tax because they are in low income housing?

Interesting point.. But at some point in time the grand-kids will be out of school and i`ll be in the same situation as you, i`ll still pay my taxes reguardless of that fact. Its my pact in life.

[Scotty]

So, you want schools to have even less funding than they do now?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

No I want the people that have kids to pay for it not me.  Why should you get a tax break for having kids?  That should be the other way around then use that money for schools.  You would also cut down on the population while your at it.  None of these "baby poppers" living off the government.  When it costs you an extra 4 grand a year per kid in taxes that's a big incentive not to have them. 

[MP-Ryan]

that would make sense, except you have to pay for garbage, sewage, water, gas, electricity, etc on a monthly basis on top of your property tax. those bills should cover their respective infrastructure. i can understand police fire and local road systems (shouldn't car taxes cover those), but you still have to pay property taxes in areas where you dont have anything. people i know in the alaskan bush get taxed big time, with no infrastructure at all for those taxes to pay for. i kinda think you should get what you pay for. if theres anything i dont like about the tax system, its the 50 million different kinds of taxes you end up paying. i very much doubt anyone can list all the taxes you could end up paying in america, theres that many of them. still the only two certainties in life are death and taxes. this is why i think the world needs to be nuked (of course then everyone would need to pay nuke tax).

The bills you pay are for service, not for infrastructure.  Look at it this way - do you think people prefer having lower utilities bills and property taxes that pay for the utilities infrastructure over paying much larger individual utility bills every month?

Property taxes only cover infrastructure in the municipality OR county OR district that you reside in.  So people who own property are essentially paying for upkeep on the systems that allow them to live there - be it the roads, the water lines, the sewer lines, the fire service, the police service (which, in areas where there is no municipal police, will pay for contracts with State/outside police).

Ultimately, property taxes are a way for municipalities to cover their costs.  As municipalities already function with enormous assistance from higher levels of government, I think a direct method of income collection is in their best interest.  I'd love to see all taxes reduced to value-added tax schemes because it is directly applied based on consumption (as opposed to income taxes, that hit you regardless of your consumption levels), but property taxes are a necessary evil.  On the plus side, they are proportional - the higher the assessed value of your property, the higher the taxes - so the premise is that each household pays according to their ability to do so (afford a more expensive home, pay more property taxes).  That can be a little problematic when the geniuses in the financial sector let people buy homes well beyond their financial reach, though *cough cough*.

[Whitelight]

Your taxes are based on the size of your property, and what you have on said property. That said if you think you pay to much land tax, get a smaller lot of land, and a small house or trailer, thus reducing your taxes.

[MP-Ryan]

No I want the people that have kids to pay for it not me.  Why should you get a tax break for having kids?  That should be the other way around then use that money for schools.  You would also cut down on the population while your at it.  None of these "baby poppers" living off the government.  When it costs you an extra 4 grand a year per kid in taxes that's a big incentive not to have them.  

Maybe you missed the news, but the general population in North America has birth rates that are already starting to rapidly approach below-replacement levels.  You really want to reduce that further?  *points at Europe*  If you haven't noticed the dire predictions, more than a fewer European countries are nervously looking at birth rates already (mostly because the Muslim population is on course to exceed the non-Muslim in the next 20 years, which scares the **** out of "secular" countries like France.)  Japan has an upside down population pyramid, which is poised to wreak all kinds of havoc.

Populations in democratic countries having a controlled number of babies around the replacement rate is probably a good thing.

That, and there is an inverse relationship between education and number of children.  By underfunding education, you're more likely to increase the numbers of children - many of which, due to the demographics of who's having them, will end up "living off the government," as you so disparagingly put it.  In other words, suck it up and pay your school-supporting property taxes, because it's better than the alternative =)

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Tell that to all the people on fixed incomes that could loose their home if the levy is approved.  Then who is left to pay the taxes on all the city owned parking lots left. 

[MP-Ryan]

Tell that to all the people on fixed incomes that could loose their home if the levy is approved.  Then who is left to pay the taxes on all the city owned parking lots left. 

OK, to be fair, levies are an entirely different kettle of fish than what we've been talking about so far.  And more to the point (as most property tax increases are in the order of 10-30%) if a few hundred dollars in property tax (which can be spread over a year's expenses) mean the difference between paying and defaulting on the mortgage, the people who have such a mortgage in the first place have purchased well beyond their means.  If you're just talking about a failure to pay their property taxes, municipalities typically don't start by seizing property, they start with liens.