Author Topic: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]  (Read 2797 times)

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Offline The E

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Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
Arenas, Knifes, Guns and Mobs. Discuss.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 07:07:32 am by The E »
Let there be light
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Let there be monsters and let there be pain
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Offline FraktuRe

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Re: Caprica 1x11 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
it's ep 12.

Also, you're supposed to name 3 things in the opening post! three!

Good ep, though I kinda crinched at the idea zoe designed the centurions.
Or something.
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Offline YIIMM

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the first angel. Also, how a member of the terracotta army managed to find his way in Graystone's study is anyone's guess.

 

Offline Locutus of Borg

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
This show seems to me like a derailing train.

This is not what I expect from RDM.

The show has characters I don't care about, plots that don't move, and scenes that are outright baffling. I am reaching my limit. The only reason I've stuck on is because I'm hoping it will become more like Battlestar (character wise) and less like a Syfy original movie.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 04:07:55 pm by Locutus of Borg »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I don't think RDM is involved in this show very much.

 
Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I don't think the producers approached this show with the intention of recreating BSG, just on a plant and with civilians. So I think watching this show and wanting it to be BSG is setting yourself up to be let down. If you watch the show as something new, but in a familiar setting, I think there's plenty to enjoy in it. Corporate intrigue, pain and loss, the concepts of life and death and the hereafter; the one similarity that Caprica really has to BSG is that it assumes that the audience isn't a pack of idiots. In fact, I think Caprica demands even more than BSG that the audience really put on their thinking caps and try to keep up.

The twists and turns of this episode are a good example I think. You've got Amanda and Clarice attempting to play each other, Daniel digging himself an ever deeper hole, and then the whole thing with Zoe, the revelation that she's being guided by a "Head Zoe", and her yet-unknown destiny with Tamara.

Maybe I'm a BSG-verse fan boy...ok, actually, I definitely am...but I'm finding lots to enjoy about Caprica, even if it doesn't have Vipers.

 

Offline Locutus of Borg

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
Why would the Beings of Light/Angels want to guide humanity towards creating Cylons?
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
Why would the Beings of Light/Angels want to guide humanity towards creating Cylons?

Gods have a history of being dicks. :P
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Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
Every time they use that Red Eye wipe thing before going into V-world I think about the scene changes from the Adam West Batman show where the Batman logo zoomed in and out while the background spun around with those awesome trumpets playing.

But yeah, the only thing that has kept this show from jumping the shark is that it's never had enough momentum to get up the ramp.

I'll still watch it though. :nervous:

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I tend to disagree. People keep watching Caprica thinking it will be BSG. If you go in thinking that then you'll be disappointed. I'm watching it as another show set in the same universe and it works pretty well as that.
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Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I dunno, I'll admit my bias coming off the disappointment (IMO) of the BSG finale, but I think at this point Caprica is failing (or at least flailing) on its own merits.  These first few episodes of the 2nd half demonstrate my main gripe with the show: there have been fewer plot points than episodes!

-Clarice becomes religious mob boss on Caprica (uhg I don't even wanna think about this episode)
-Amanda suspects Clarice is an evil ho and starts looking through her ****
-Tamara and Zoey are now buddies after about 6 episodes of wandering around looking for each other.  I like teen-girl kung fu as much as the next guy, but the V-world thing has just been agony.

Lacy getting caught up deeper with the STO doesn't count as a plot point because she's pretty much just back where she started now.  Why the heck didn't the Lacy-Clarice exchange about Zoey being in the robot body happen 5 episodes ago, sparing us the whole Barnabus jag?  Same deal for Daniel--he now has his company back, but he's supposedly even deeper in it with the mob?  He was already in it with the mob back from when they stole the MCP!  Like a bunch of gangsters would care whether you asked them to kill two guys or twenty?  Both of these stories have been eating up screen time while pretty much treading water.  It's like the writers were like "What can we do to **** with Daniel Greystone and make him do bad things?  I know, let's have him lose the company!" but then they realized that if he didn't have the company there was no show, hence the retrograde motion.  The show is full of sound and fury and emotional turmoil from the players, but it's mostly just padding while we wait for the stars to align so something can actually happen.

I don't think I was expecting BSG, I mean, the producer's statement pretty much laid out that it was a family drama which just happened to be set in this world.  I was expecting to have some two-families HBO style action, but the Adama storylines have pretty much foundered at this point--isn't this guy supposed to be one of your two main characters?  Now he's just a mob go-between, a character who has been squeezed out of the action because there's been nothing for him to do.

Maybe carrying 5 threads is just too much for a one-hour show to handle.  Usually television keeps things watchable with an A-plot B-plot type of structure.  Anyway, the glacial pacing has me wishing for some monster of the week action.  Hence, I'm waiting for the robots.

  

Offline karajorma

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
-Clarice becomes religious mob boss on Caprica (uhg I don't even wanna think about this episode)


The whole Barnabus/Clarice thing has always been about who has power on Caprica. But if you don't like that, fair enough.

Quote
-Amanda suspects Clarice is an evil ho and starts looking through her ****

I've got no problem with that. Clarice has been trying to use her almost from day one. Nice to see she's wised up to that.

Quote
-Tamara and Zoey are now buddies after about 6 episodes of wandering around looking for each other.  I like teen-girl kung fu as much as the next guy, but the V-world thing has just been agony.


Now here's where you started making **** up. The six episodes you refer to is actually a 1 minute fight sequence in the previous episode. Tamara has been in V-world for ages fighting for her survival but we've barely seen Zoe in there. Bear in mind that with Zoe in V-world we're back to having both girls back in contention for being the cause of the Cylon War.

Quote
Lacy getting caught up deeper with the STO doesn't count as a plot point because she's pretty much just back where she started now.  Why the heck didn't the Lacy-Clarice exchange about Zoey being in the robot body happen 5 episodes ago, sparing us the whole Barnabus jag?

Cause Lacy had been told by Zoe not to trust Clarice. There is no way she would ever tell her a thing until she was convinced Zoe was dead. The whole kidnapping/starvation thing didn't hurt either.

Quote
Same deal for Daniel--he now has his company back, but he's supposedly even deeper in it with the mob?  He was already in it with the mob back from when they stole the MCP!  Like a bunch of gangsters would care whether you asked them to kill two guys or twenty?

He wasn't quite this deep. That's the point they are making. Remember that he didn't get very far in with them at all. He asked Adama to do all the dirty work so that they could get their daughters back. All the mob stuff was basically done by Adama by his request. This time he's made a conscious decision to get in bed with the mob. Not the same thing at all.

Quote
I don't think I was expecting BSG, I mean, the producer's statement pretty much laid out that it was a family drama which just happened to be set in this world.  I was expecting to have some two-families HBO style action, but the Adama storylines have pretty much foundered at this point--isn't this guy supposed to be one of your two main characters?  Now he's just a mob go-between, a character who has been squeezed out of the action because there's been nothing for him to do.

That much I will agree with. I definitely want to see more Adama.
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Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
Quote
-Tamara and Zoey are now buddies after about 6 episodes of wandering around looking for each other.  I like teen-girl kung fu as much as the next guy, but the V-world thing has just been agony.


Now here's where you started making **** up. The six episodes you refer to is actually a 1 minute fight sequence in the previous episode. Tamara has been in V-world for ages fighting for her survival but we've barely seen Zoe in there. Bear in mind that with Zoe in V-world we're back to having both girls back in contention for being the cause of the Cylon War.
Well you're right, it hasn't been six solid episodes of martial arts mayhem, but the point is that we've had main characters kept in limbo doing what amounts to TV busy-work rather than having meaningful, plot-advancing interactions with each other.  The entire V-world experience up until the last episode had been more or less a time-killer: there was Zoey releasing Tamara from the room, then a bunch of wandering around, then that whole bank-robbing subplot with the stolen avatar, then Adama's lengthy search for Tamara, then the kung-fu, then the arena battle, and maybe some more I'm forgetting.  All of these incidents are (IMO) a lot of dead weight--the important scenes are Adama's encounter with his daughter back in the first episode (I think) where she is terrified and he is horrified, then Tamara's meeting with Zoey when they are brought together by their common nature as post-human intelligences or whatever.  The writers basically created a lot of make-work for her to do in the mean time, the upshot of which was that Tamara is angry about what had happened to her.  All of this could have been accomplished in one or two episodes, and we could have learned more about Tamara and Zoey from their interactions with each other.

The same is true of the recent Lacy and Daniel arcs--you are right that there were technical obstacles that kept them from getting to where they are now sooner, but I think the story would have moved at a more natural and engaging pace without them.

If Lacy didn't tell Clarice about Zoey and the MCP because she was told not to trust Clarice, why wasn't that dealt with when Zoey died four(?) episodes ago?  The problem was that by the time Zoey's robot was wrecked, Lacy was already deep in with Barnabus, so the encounter couldn't happen, right?  But with minor changes, Clarice could have been in charge on Caprica from the start or something like that, bringing Lacy and Clarice directly into play without having to kill airtime on STO training operations, Lacy's soon-dead love interest, the aborted spaceport bombing attempt, etc.  Seeing as Barnabus is basically a watered down version of Clarice, his only real contribution so far has been acting as another speedbump for the story, keeping two of the main characters from coming into conflict.

As for Daniel, sure, maybe there is some secret code of Tauron mobster conduct which demands that outsiders aren't really involved until they do the secret handshake, but it's a pretty far-fetched plot contrivance if that's the case.  He's asked them to commit an act of corporate espionage during which two men were killed--they have all the leverage they could possibly need over him.  Hell, they're mobsters; all the leverage they need as far as the audience is concerned is that they can kill him whenever they want.

Anyway, it's not like I hate the show or anything; I just wish that it would deal more directly with the actual ideas that made the premise interesting to me in the first place rather than trying to juggle around all the threads of the ensemble drama stuff.  Robots Robots Robots!

 

Offline newman

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
In general I like Caprica. I do have a bit of a problem with the direction they're taking with Joseph Adama; the feeling I got from BSG when commander/admiral Adama talked about him was that he was a respected lawyer with high moral standards. It's just something I assumed from the references BSG made on this guy - and now he's been reduced to a mafia underling. Of course he may well get out of that whole thing eventually, we'll see - I just don't think mafia lawyers really need lucky lighters to win cases..
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Offline The E

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I sort of think that that's going to be his character arc. He's going to become that guy at some point.
He's also going to marry Teryl Rothery at some point.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline newman

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Re: Caprica 1x12 - "Things we lock away" [Spoilers]
I sort of think that that's going to be his character arc. He's going to become that guy at some point.

Yea, I hope so too.

He's also going to marry Teryl Rothery at some point.

I thought she died on P3X-666 in the line of duty.. :D
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb