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Author Topic: Good approach to the manager thing  (Read 6436 times)

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Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
on: April 28, 2002, 12:47:28 pm
Good call, I shoulda done it this way for the FSF resumes, of which I got 8 or 12 from various peeps.

Think we should do a steering committee that reviews source then approves committing to CVS? In addition to a coordinator?
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Offline Sandwich

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #1 on: April 28, 2002, 12:54:24 pm
I just did what I thought was needed. Of course, I did see how much of a mess the whole process was for FsF... :p

Glad you approve. :)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #2 on: April 28, 2002, 01:19:03 pm
Not sure it's a mess, just nobody applying for the right jobs, and of course, they are all sitting in my inbox rather than in public.

Good idea :) The source changes everything, though, everything :)

You applying? That kind of initiative is a good quality :)
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Offline heretic

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #3 on: April 28, 2002, 02:52:06 pm
well, if the major mods are made by a select group, then the group itself should act on all changes, not a "committee" based on it.


having 3rd party groups managing another is asking for trouble.
VBB survivor: June 1999 until the end. Only banned 2 or 3 times (I think)
 

Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #4 on: April 28, 2002, 03:06:57 pm
How do the open source projects do it?
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Offline Sandwich

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #5 on: April 28, 2002, 03:34:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Inquisitor
You applying? That kind of initiative is a good quality :)


Honestly, I would, as I do think that I have a knack for, shall we say, smoothing things out, among different people, but I just don't think I'll have the time. I should know within a week or so if I do, but even then, I don't meet the qualifications I set for the others - I haven't managed anything significant that I can remember. Except for these elections, that is. :p
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline CP5670

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #6 on: April 28, 2002, 03:39:41 pm
I can probably coordinate some stuff (have done it in the past) and I will have a lot of free time after a week or two; the only problem is that I don't know much about C++ programming. :(
 

Offline Sandwich

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Reply #7 on: April 29, 2002, 02:29:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
the only problem is that I don't know much about C++ programming. :(


Look at the application thread; you don't need to know C++, just "a basic understanding of programming principles". :)

Quote
Originally posted by IceFire in the other thread
When VW does return, I think the proper course of action will be to take elections within the team and then proceed from there.  We've got a site under development that will then serve as a center for everyone on that team.  Updating .Plan files, posting news, and making releases available.  Also, whatever other automated systems you guys need, we'll develop (within reason).

And we'll support forums at both locations for added convienence.  As long as there is central communication inside the team, the forum that the general public interacts in is of no major concern and it should keep things peacable again :)


Hmmm... we need to talk, Icey-boi.

Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol in the other thread
hmmm, i'll volunteer as a member of that committee: Lead Giver-of-stupid-and-often-impractical/impossible-ideas.  Seriously though, i do have a lot of ideas for improvements, as i'm sure Aldo, Venom, and Woomeister do as well.  I think we need to get all the project leaders in here and figure out what changes we all need/madly desire.


Nothing's being said about a committiee. Personally, I'd prefer if there wasn't a committiee for coming up with ideas - that's what the general public is for. :) If the project manager couldn't handle it (too much workload), it would be the job of a committiee to decide which of those ideas from the public got worked on.

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670 in the other thread
The principles is the stuff I am fairly good at (logic, discrete math, etc.), so I can put the general ideas into more distinct series of commands, but the problem is that I am not too well acquainted with the C++ syntax and programming procedures. :(


First of all, are you willing/able to manage this? Because I don't see anything in your post that would indicate that - just a few comments on your programming abilities.

EDIT: Whoops - you see what happens when you don't follow the rules? Tsk tsk... ;) CP, why'd you mention possibly being able to manage it in this thread, and not in the other one?



To all of you quoted people: I'm gonna be a stickler for keeping that other thread clean - if you wanna say something aside from posting an application, say it in this thread. :nod:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2002, 02:31:53 am by 214 »
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #8 on: April 29, 2002, 07:49:07 am
Not a committee for ideas, or even necessarily a comittee for deciding what to work on, but maybe more a group of people who look at a submitted piece of code and say "yeah, this is clean, this will advance the engine, yada yada" then committ it to the code base at large.

Settings tasks and who does what can be difficult to do as a group, and the "ideas" should definitely come from the community :)
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Offline IceFire

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Reply #9 on: April 29, 2002, 08:32:49 am
You need a leader first and foremost....but that leader needs a committe under him to help co-ordinate efforts and bring that to the top.  I suggest that the leader be chosen after serious discussion and debate and then election.  The best person for the job has to be cool headed, practical, and a supreme diplomat and compromizer.  Plus the team leader needs to be a good programmer and be able to understand what everyone else is doing.

Anything of this magnitude will need to find its own path, but I'm already starting to see individual groups looking for their own programmer to work on their modification of FreeSpace code.  This is a bad thing I think.  As one of the co-leaders of TBP, I want to make sure that all of the changes we want are into one big package and that our team has someone in the big group committe....and the same for all of the other MODs out there.  There should be a form of communication for all intersted into those who make it happen.
- IceFire
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Offline Sandwich

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #10 on: April 29, 2002, 10:18:15 am
Inquisitor, IceFire - I agree with you both 100%.

Icey - talk to me on ICQ - I want to coordinate the VWBB and HLP on this, as well as those other things we've needed to talk about for months. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #11 on: April 29, 2002, 12:05:00 pm
Ice, as always, think we are on the same page ;)

This is an exciting time for the FS community. I haven't felt this jazzed since FS2 came out.
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Offline Fury

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #12 on: April 29, 2002, 12:12:00 pm
We are still lacking proper source code team organization...
this is going exactly the way I feared of...
  

Offline Sandwich

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Reply #13 on: April 29, 2002, 12:31:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
We are still lacking proper source code team organization...
this is going exactly the way I feared of...


That's because I haven't started to get it organized yet - don't worry. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline KARMA

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #14 on: April 29, 2002, 06:33:08 pm
its possible to have a single post where to report all the new features/fxes to source code? something like a closed thread to avoid comments, where the admins just  report  what has been done, or maybe to have this on a web site
just because i don't have much time by now and more important i'm extremely lazy and i don't like to read dozens of posts :)
thx
it would be fine also to have (once tested) all these code modifications grouped periodically in something like "(un)official patches", but i'm sure you will do that in the future
 

Offline penguin

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #15 on: April 29, 2002, 08:03:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KARMA
its possible to have a single post where to report all the new features/fxes to source code? something like a closed thread to avoid comments, where the admins just  report  what has been done ... (snip)

Most version control systems (e.g., CVS) can run scripts whenever anything is committed to the repository... in most open source projects, this sends out email to a mailing list.  Easy enough to set up, we just need a central repository for the source.  Oh yeah, and someone to manage it :p
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Offline Inquisitor

Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #16 on: April 29, 2002, 08:06:32 pm
Which, is the point of the other thread :)
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Offline CP5670

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Reply #17 on: April 29, 2002, 08:16:22 pm
Quote
EDIT: Whoops - you see what happens when you don't follow the rules? Tsk tsk... ;) CP, why'd you mention possibly being able to manage it in this thread, and not in the other one?


Sorry, I wasn't sure which of the two threads was more appropriate for this and ended up essentially splitting my reply between them. :p :D Anyway, I would of course be willing to lead such an effort if you think I am qualified; the main problem with me is a lack of practical C++ syntax knowledge, but I am trying to learn more of that stuff (good thing it is pretty simple, if somewhat strange :p) and will soon have the time required for dividing up the tasks between the programmers and basically holding the thing together. (keeping things active and running is key here ;)) The next two weeks are going to be rather hectic for me due to the AP exams, but after that I will pretty much be free all day for many months. ;)
 

Offline Sandwich

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Good approach to the manager thing
Reply #18 on: April 30, 2002, 02:17:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Anyway, I would of course be willing to lead such an effort if you think I am qualified...


Well, that ain't for me to decide, so go post in the other thread your application according to the template. Or even better, edit your other post. :D
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
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