[Mika]

from your average end-luser standpoint context-sensitive (aka Modal) UIs are easier to use, and the technical reason to not support the old interface is that you're maintaining two interfaces - a guaranteed way to generate bugs.

Seeing the CAD software companies allow usage of them both, I don't see how Word or Excel could be any harder.

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Wait, there are probably a lot more Office users than Engineers...

[The E]

And? Kazan is still right, having two different kinds of UI will only lead to headaches on the developer side. Microsoft chose to avoid it by ditching one interface completely. If the devs of that CAD software are sure enough of themselves that they want to maintain both approaches, that's their business.

[Bob-san]

And? Kazan is still right, having two different kinds of UI will only lead to headaches on the developer side. Microsoft chose to avoid it by ditching one interface completely. If the devs of that CAD software are sure enough of themselves that they want to maintain both approaches, that's their business.

AutoDesk has been supporting both approaches (and more) for quite a long time. To that company, the end-user (more often than not experienced draftsmen and engineers if not engineering/design students)  has the choice to use the interface they prefer. If someone likes Ribbon, they can use it. Otherwise, they can use another default preset or setup their own variation and save it for later use. Two UI's lead to headaches, but should a company really insult the core users (business & education) by forcing a major change twice in a row? For the past 2-3 years now, every professor (including many Tech professors) has had problems using Office 2007's new UI, not to mention most technology students (and many tech-savvy) who refuse to use Office 07/10 in favor of Office 03. To be honest, with how long Microsoft has been developing their Office suite, I'm surprised that they'd not just copy the old UI and add anything new into the existing menus.

[Kazan]

you view a change of UI as an insult to the user?  talk about eco-centric user.

i hope you like paying the extra (probably) 20% premium on the price for them to maintain and test and debug two UIs instead of one.

[Mongoose]

I just don't really understand why they chose to make such a drastic change in the first place.  I mean, essentially every single utility program over the past fifteen years or so has used some variation on the drop-down menu.  The concept is innately familiar to end-users, to the point that even some of our grandparents are familiar with it.  So why throw that all down the drain in favor of a vastly different system that doesn't resemble any other program on the market and requires a great deal of relearning?  It'd be like Microsoft ditching the Start button just for the hell of it.

[General Battuta]

Because it's better, and the pervasiveness of the previous system is exactly what's giving it so much inertia and the change has to start somewhere?

[Bob-san]

you view a change of UI as an insult to the user?  talk about eco-centric user.

i hope you like paying the extra (probably) 20% premium on the price for them to maintain and test and debug two UIs instead of one.

I view significant changes without care for actual user preferences to be an insult to the end-user. I really don't give a **** if you think I have an ego (since I do).

I would happily pay for a price premium to maintain, test, debug, & distribute a familiar GUI that many end-users (myself included) prefer. As it stands, the relative price of software has been dropping. Either way, I'd rather spend $120 on software that I can use well than $100 on software I abhor using.

I just don't really understand why they chose to make such a drastic change in the first place.  I mean, essentially every single utility program over the past fifteen years or so has used some variation on the drop-down menu.  The concept is innately familiar to end-users, to the point that even some of our grandparents are familiar with it.  So why throw that all down the drain in favor of a vastly different system that doesn't resemble any other program on the market and requires a great deal of relearning?  It'd be like Microsoft ditching the Start button just for the hell of it.

Them and the vast majority of other companies have been using the same style UI for >15 years and actually longer when you consider text-based OS's. Ironically, the way to access the programs prior to having a cursor is preserved even when irrelevant to actual use.

Ribbon, in its current incarnation, is a bloated piece of **** in my opinion. It's not customizable in the least and leaves users having to relearn nearly every aspect of the Office environment. It doesn't make sense to me and it certainly doesn't make me want to learn how to better use it. It's one step forward and a marathon's run back.

Because it's better, and the pervasiveness of the previous system is exactly what's giving it so much inertia and the change has to start somewhere?

Please, defend why it's better. What's so special about Ribbon that it'll improve productivity of existing users and new users alike? In personal experience, professors and students alike are constantly baffled by Ribbon while doing more advanced tasks.

[Kazan]

honestly bob.. i don't give a ****.  take your curmudgeon-rant elsewhere, you're ripping my pond.  I'm not on the ****ing Core OS team, i'm not on the ****ing UI team. I will be working on a part of their products that dinosaur engineers will never need to interact with - only other software engineers.  Go bark up the right tree.

[General Battuta]

Because it's better, and the pervasiveness of the previous system is exactly what's giving it so much inertia and the change has to start somewhere?

Please, defend why it's better. What's so special about Ribbon that it'll improve productivity of existing users and new users alike? In personal experience, professors and students alike are constantly baffled by Ribbon while doing more advanced tasks.

It's better because I am a godlike being and I judge it to be so. Your professors and students alike have been trained for years on the previous interface and are thus confounded. Weaklings.

[redsniper]

Seriously guys, when my school's computers switched to '07, I hated it with a burning passion. I wanted to punch a whole through the monitor every day. Then after a couple months I got used to it, and now it's fine. Same with just about every other student I know here. You've had three YEARS to get used to a software interface change, it's not that hard.

[Scourge of Ages]

I do have to admit, the ribbon is no more frustrating than trying to figure out if what I want is under File, Edit, Format, or Insert. It just takes some getting used to. It's not like we can force MS or anybody else to go back.

[Spicious]

I remember being unhappy about the ribbon switching to the wrong tab every time I selected a different image in Word. Fortunately, I haven't needed Office at all since then.

[Mars]

It doesn't seem more efficient at all. I don't really hate it, but I thought it was unnecessary.

[Nuke]

since youre on the ui team is there any way you can bring back the classic start menu. its why i haven't upgraded to 7 yet.

[Kazan]

since youre on the ui team is there any way you can bring back the classic start menu. its why i haven't upgraded to 7 yet.

i hope the bolded part was a joke

[Spicious]

I think we've all learnt a little something about the consequences of announcing where we work, at least if it's somewhere well known.

[Mika]

Seriously guys, when my school's computers switched to '07, I hated it with a burning passion. I wanted to punch a whole through the monitor every day. Then after a couple months I got used to it, and now it's fine. Same with just about every other student I know here. You've had three YEARS to get used to a software interface change, it's not that hard.

What if I said I never had those three years? But a couple of minutes instead? Don't underestimate the pressures in the corporate world. And it is not like I wouldn't need to constantly learn new stuff that is actually related to my education and job, instead of Powerpoint or Excel.

And? Kazan is still right, having two different kinds of UI will only lead to headaches on the developer side. Microsoft chose to avoid it by ditching one interface completely. If the devs of that CAD software are sure enough of themselves that they want to maintain both approaches, that's their business.

First off, CAD software is a lot more complex than Word or Excel. I haven't heard of a single bug in those UIs, despite the possibility of using menus or ribbon. I just wonder how such a big corporation as Microsoft then doesn't have enough money to do both, come to think of it, menus were already available and tested in previous versions. All this means to me is that Office 2003 is likely the last Office suite I get from Microsoft. This is simply because it is not possible to trust them to keep things compatible and the UI consistent any more. I can as easily switch to something cheaper (read: free) and learn new UI on the go.

Though I heard that Office 2010 already has a File menu and customizable ribbon. Makes me wonder about the justifications given for the Ribbon in Office 2007. Office 2010 might be worth taking a look, but I suspect it will likely be Open Office that I'm gonna use in the future.

I think we've all learnt a little something about the consequences of announcing where we work, at least if it's somewhere well known.

Agreed.

since youre on the ui team is there any way you can bring back the classic start menu. its why i haven't upgraded to 7 yet.

There already is. A program called Classic Shell brings back the old start menu for Windows 7. It improved my OS usability a lot and I have installed that program on both the working computer and home computer. Highly recommended if you want to have the classic start menu.

[The E]

Haters gonna hate.

Also, never underestimate the amount of thought that has to go into designing a user interface for a userbase that is, by and large, computer illiterate vs the design work that goes into designing an interface for dedicated professionals.
The former is surprisingly hard, as anyone with a passing knowledge of UI design will tell you.

FRED, for example, is an Application where a Ribbon-type dynamic interface could be really beneficial.

[General Battuta]

I would kill for a ribbon interface in FRED.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

[evil echoing demon voice]Do not touch the FRED interface!!!!!!![/evil echoing demon voice]