[Droid803]

Yes, it's hurt.  Yes, the bomb is reeeeally painful, but it doesn't melt holes in the sides of destroyers.

It doesn't, true, but I'm with Kosh on this one:  it should, dammit.  However, since bombs in FS don't do so, my hat goes off to the materials scientists/engineers of the 24th century for coming up with something that is miraculously able to instantly dump that kind of energy somewhere that is both a) not anywhere in the hull and b) not anywhere in the interior either.  I'm just going to call it Handwavium with a side order of Unobtanium.

We were talking on IRC yesterday and realized that when the techroom says 'collapsed core molybdenum', it might literally mean 'collapsed core molybdenum', as in 'degenerate matter', as in 'good ****ing god how the **** are these ships even able to move'  

Maybe that's why they move at 20 m/s, thus explaining low speeds!

[MatthTheGeek]

Shipyards is something I consider definitely a military installation - or at least military shipyards, there is no way you have the same shipyards for military and civilian ships.

[General Battuta]

Yes, it's hurt.  Yes, the bomb is reeeeally painful, but it doesn't melt holes in the sides of destroyers.

It doesn't, true, but I'm with Kosh on this one:  it should, dammit.  However, since bombs in FS don't do so, my hat goes off to the materials scientists/engineers of the 24th century for coming up with something that is miraculously able to instantly dump that kind of energy somewhere that is both a) not anywhere in the hull and b) not anywhere in the interior either.  I'm just going to call it Handwavium with a side order of Unobtanium.

We were talking on IRC yesterday and realized that when the techroom says 'collapsed core molybdenum', it might literally mean 'collapsed core molybdenum', as in 'degenerate matter', as in 'good ****ing god how the **** are these ships even able to move'  

Maybe that's why they move at 20 m/s, thus explaining low speeds!

already made joke was ALREADY MADE

[Droid803]

I don't care! It's more awesome when I say it!

If I spend the time reading what everyone says, then my computer will crash before I get to post!

[General Battuta]

he's right!

* General Battuta prepares space for Droid in all threads

[Klaustrophobia]

Yes, it's hurt.  Yes, the bomb is reeeeally painful, but it doesn't melt holes in the sides of destroyers.

It doesn't, true, but I'm with Kosh on this one:  it should, dammit.  However, since bombs in FS don't do so, my hat goes off to the materials scientists/engineers of the 24th century for coming up with something that is miraculously able to instantly dump that kind of energy somewhere that is both a) not anywhere in the hull and b) not anywhere in the interior either.  I'm just going to call it Handwavium with a side order of Unobtanium.

We were talking on IRC yesterday and realized that when the techroom says 'collapsed core molybdenum', it might literally mean 'collapsed core molybdenum', as in 'degenerate matter', as in 'good ****ing god how the **** are these ships even able to move'  

Maybe that's why they move at 20 m/s, thus explaining low speeds!

already made joke was ALREADY MADE

well it doesn't matter since there's not enough mass to keep the degenerate matter together anyway....

[General Battuta]

Yes, it's hurt.  Yes, the bomb is reeeeally painful, but it doesn't melt holes in the sides of destroyers.

It doesn't, true, but I'm with Kosh on this one:  it should, dammit.  However, since bombs in FS don't do so, my hat goes off to the materials scientists/engineers of the 24th century for coming up with something that is miraculously able to instantly dump that kind of energy somewhere that is both a) not anywhere in the hull and b) not anywhere in the interior either.  I'm just going to call it Handwavium with a side order of Unobtanium.

We were talking on IRC yesterday and realized that when the techroom says 'collapsed core molybdenum', it might literally mean 'collapsed core molybdenum', as in 'degenerate matter', as in 'good ****ing god how the **** are these ships even able to move'  

Maybe that's why they move at 20 m/s, thus explaining low speeds!

already made joke was ALREADY MADE

well it doesn't matter since there's not enough mass to keep the degenerate matter together anyway....

Like I said,

Yeah it makes no sense whatsoever. But whatever, FreeSpace.

[NGTM-1R]

Keep in mind non-military installations could mean things like shipyards, subspace communication hubs, and other vital pieces of space infrastructure.  It doesn't seem so harsh since your goal is to rip out the supporting backbone of their military might.  No wait, that is harsh, but war is supposed to be about making things harsh for the other guy.

Considering the size of the warheads and the fact they're salted for extra fallout, I'm pretty sure civilian causalities are the object. It's designed for planetary targets, and the warhead is a continent-killer with extra fallout. Even if you drop it on a military target you're going to get huge civilian casualties.

[SomeGuyWithAName]

I never really realized they were salted warheads, always read over that part...
A 5GT salted warhead actually sounds like a doomsday device right out of Dr. Strangelove. It doesn't really make sense outside of genocidal applications. Especially in space - why would you want salted warheads in an environment without fallout?

I guess the Fed supportes can make a claim that the GT(V)A always had genocidal tendencies... "A planet wants to secede from our alliance? No problem, we can afford to lose a planet - WITH 0 POPULATION! (insert evil laughter)" or at least "A Vasudan Planet? Why waste marines to get a colonizeable planet, just doomsday their asses and leave scorched earth behind!"

Against Shivans, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Klaustrophobia]

Like I said,

Yeah it makes no sense whatsoever. But whatever, FreeSpace.

woooooooooosh.

[Mars]

I never really realized they were salted warheads, always read over that part...
A 5GT salted warhead actually sounds like a doomsday device right out of Dr. Strangelove. It doesn't really make sense outside of genocidal applications. Especially in space - why would you want salted warheads in an environment without fallout?

I guess the Fed supportes can make a claim that the GT(V)A always had genocidal tendencies... "A planet wants to secede from our alliance? No problem, we can afford to lose a planet - WITH 0 POPULATION! (insert evil laughter)" or at least "A Vasudan Planet? Why waste marines to get a colonizeable planet, just doomsday their asses and leave scorched earth behind!"

Against Shivans, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Perhaps it was for the Vasudans. I've always wondered about that. What would have happened to the losing species of the Terran / Vasudan war exactly?

As for the collapsed-core Molybdenum, I've always taken it that somehow the atoms themselves had been collapsed.  As for how it's kept in such an ultra-dense configuration, I point out "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." and that this same society can produce anti-matter by the ton, travel between stars in hours, possesses beam cannons that can glass whole planets, and whose vessels are routinely hit by those cannons.

There was a time we were pretty sure we'd never break the sound barrier. A stone age human would be utterly confounded by our current technology. (granted, 500 years is quite a fast advancement.)

[Black Wolf]

Perhaps it was for the Vasudans. I've always wondered about that. What would have happened to the losing species of the Terran / Vasudan war exactly?

I don't think either side would have utterly genocided the other - if the hatred was that strong, they'd never have been able to forge an alliance, Shivans or no Shivans. If it were me, I'd have kept the Vasudans either planet bound and disarmed or eliminated their shipyards and allowed them to buy Terran ships (utterly disarmed, of course, with some kind of tracking device in each ship). I guess it'd depend largely on whether they got to keep any/many of their colony worlds. You'd also have to control all the nodes between different systems... actually, that'd be a pretty cool alternate history campaign/story - if the Terrans had won the TV war in 13 years, and the Shivans arrived a year later. Would the eradication of any HoL threat have offset the loss of the Vasudans? Would they ever have been able to stop Lucy without the Vasudan discovered ancient research? Would the Terrans use captured Vasudan vessels?

Interesting.

[-Norbert-]

Considering the reason for the war was a stupid translation mistake I take it a peace treaty could have been reached, or at least a conditional surrender, after the home system of either species got cut off from the rest of the universe.
In case of a surrender, limiting the loser military to a certain size is far more likely than a full dismantling of their fleet, otherwise you would either hang out a welcome sign for any wannabe pirate all over terran and vasudan space to come to a free banquet or be forced into a permanent military occupation. Neither of which is an ideal situaton.

[Mars]

About the length of an Ursa

[Luis Dias]

People here spoke about an anti-matter / matter bomb.


Hell, why not a fully antimatter bomb? Shoot it against the hull of a ship and the antimatter just marries up with the hull in an orgasmic light fashion, using up all the remaining pieces of hull matter around the core of the explosion as shrapnel against the ship itself.

And Booom, one big hole in the hull.

(Probably not worth the cost.... conventional missiles are way cheaper )

[Hades]

About the length of an Ursa

hmm I think we should use Ursas for torpedoes so then we can fire torpedoes from our torpedoes

[General Battuta]

That would probably not work all that well since one of the big challenges with AM weapons is getting a good mixture.

If you're not familiar with it, there are already a number of antimatter or m/am weapons in FreeSpace, like the original Tsunami (which was pure antimatter) or the Helios (which was a matter/antimatter mixture.)

In reality antimatter weapons are unlikely to outperform nukes.

[Droid803]

Tsunami = AM
Harbinger = Nuke

Case and point, pretty much, summing up difficulties of AM weapons (in FS verse at least).
You can actually kill stuff with Harbingers.

[Mars]

Helios is also matter / anti-matter to be fair.

I imagine a nuke that fuses Lithium or the like will outperform a Hydrogen bomb by a significant margin. Also, I'm sure at that point in technology, a fission seed won't be as important.

[esarai]

Wait... a Harbinger is 5 GT... so then what the hell kind of yield does the Apocalypse have?