[Tyrian]

I've actually looked a little at different panel types.  Most of what I've found on NewEgg is listed as either a generic "TFT" label or as a TN panel.  My current NEC is actually a three year old TN panel and I think it looks really good, so I'm inclined to agree with CP5670.  I'm also aware of the dithering, but again, I can't really see any difference.  Blacks look great on it too. 

I also don't really have any need for a 120Hz display either.  My current NEC can do either 60Hz or 75Hz, but I can't really see a difference between the two.  I just set it to 75Hz on the policy of a bigger number with no performance hit is better.  A 60Hz refresh rate works just as well for me.

[Topgun]

what does GTG mean?

[Flaser]

Refresh rate for TFTs is irrevelant, hence why response time become the new measure stick.
The reason is that unlike a CRT where each pixel fades between the moment it was last scanned and lit up, TFTs just display a still picture, so you get no flicker with them.

....and any more than 50 FPS, much less 60, you *won't* notice any difference, unless you had the genes of a fly mixed into your genome who can watch a 1 kHz neon light flicker.

As to color fidelity: your brain does a hell a lot of compensation, so it tricks you with its very good "image enhancement". Try this: put a TN and a PVA/MVA/IPS monitor next to each other and run them from the same computer with the same image. The difference will be like day-and-night. By just seeing a single TN you have nothing to compare color fidelity to.

[CP5670]

My current NEC is actually a three year old TN panel and I think it looks really good, so I'm inclined to agree with CP5670.  I'm also aware of the dithering, but again, I can't really see any difference.  Blacks look great on it too.  

That 90GX2 was one of the best TNs back in the day. I have one on an old system too. It has the glossy coating though, which makes blacks look much better than on a matte panel. (at least with some amount of ambient light in the room; not so much in a dark room)

The worst example of TN dithering I've seen is actually in the updated nebulas in FS2, which looked nasty in motion, but newer TNs are somewhat better with this.

Refresh rate for TFTs is irrevelant, hence why response time become the new measure stick.
The reason is that unlike a CRT where each pixel fades between the moment it was last scanned and lit up, TFTs just display a still picture, so you get no flicker with them.

No, this is wrong. The refresh rate still controls how fast the display accepts pixel input from the video card. The 120hz LCDs can display higher framerates, have more flexibility with vsync and also have reduced RTC errors and input lag. I personally find the difference very noticeable even when just moving the mouse in Windows, as well as old games that can sustain high framerates.

[Topgun]

this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001439
OR THIS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236052
?

Im leaning toward the samsung but it has no DVI, is there a DVI to HDMI converter?

[Tyrian]

I've seen the Samsung, but frankly I'm not impressed by it.  The stand is *extremely* filmsy.  There's no metal in it at all.  Plus, at the "neck's" narrowest point is a snap joint that attaches the panel to the base.  Again, all plastic.  When I looked at it in the store, I just tapped the upper left corner and it started swaying wildly.  It's a big problem for me, as I travel with my computer a lot. 

I also took a look at that Asus too.  In reading the reviews on it, the vast majority are really positive.  However, if you go into the one/two egg reviews, you'll start seeing the same thing over and over again:  The panels start picking up dead pixels around the 6 - 12 month period.  I'm currently looking for other reviews from other sources, but I've been really busy lately, so I haven't had a lot of time to devote to it.

Over my Thanksgiving break, I hit the Best Buy near my house and looked at all their monitors.  What really bugged me was that even though they all played the same source footage (not totally uniform quality, but on the whole decent, I think), there were huge disparities in image quality.  On most of the monitors, there were major problems with the dithering.  On the images where there was supposed to be a nice, smooth transition from white to gray, I could see blocks of pixels that were all one color, measuring 1/8" on a side from two feet away.  Only one monitor could display that pattern correctly, an LG.  I'll see if I can hunt up the model number; I have it written down here somewhere.  Most of the monitors that had dithering issues got even worse looking when there was a lot of motion involved too.  The high motion video I have the most faith in, as it was shot by BBC America, so I'm pretty sure it was the monitor.  Of course, it could have all been caused by the huge splitter they had the monitors plugged into, though, but I think that's unlikely, because of the aforementioned good quality on the LG. 

After that, I got so disenchanted with the quality of "modern" TN panels, that I looked at IPS monitors on a whim.  I ended up stumbling across the ViewSonic VP2365wb.  Granted IPS isn't "supposed" to be very good for gaming, however, there are a couple of reviews on NewEgg stating that the traditional ghosting problems incurred by gaming on an IPS panel aren't present here.  I'm currently looking for other reviews to corroborate those claims, but any additional feedback would be welcome.

Thanks again!

[Topgun]

I got the samsung and its awesome.

[Tyrian]

How stable is the stand on your monitor?

[Klaustrophobia]

demo models in stores are a TERRIBLE way to judge monitors.  they have been there god knows how long (on the entire time), and have had god knows how many people screwing with (up) the settings.

my samsung's stand is fine.  the only thing is the piece that sticks into the base of the monitor that the baseplate attaches to won't come back out.  i just had to cut a chunk out of the styrofoam packing to make room for it when moving it.  the lack of metal doesn't bother me at all.

[Flipside]

I always get annoyed when I think about my monitor, the monitor itself is fine for quality (though not the most stable base in the world), a Flatron W2486L, but 2 days after it arrived, the place I got it from started selling a touch-sensitive monitor of the same size for only 30 quid more

[Topgun]

How stable is the stand on your monitor?

stable enough, it isn't very pose-able but other then that no complaints. As for video quality it does dither blacks, but thats to be expected from a tn/tft. The response time is super fast and video games are great on it. So far the most annoying thing are the menu buttons. There no real buttons it just uses little light sensors so there is no tactile response. It makes adjusting the monitor a big pain.

[Nuke]

i just learned that my stand can tilt. it always seemed like the angle was fixed, but upon further examination i realized that it was indeed tiltable.

[Tyrian]

I've done more digging and now I'm down to these two monitors:

Samsung BS2331

 -- or --

Viewsonic VX2450wm-LED

Right now I'm leaning more towards the Viewsonic, mostly because it's cheaper and comes with a 3 year manufacturer's warranty, as opposed to the Samsung, which only has a one year warranty.  I'm probably going to buy through Amazon though, as they have a better return policy if there's a problem.

[MR_T3D]

I'd go for the samsung, looks like higher quality product, and with 2/5ths the response time, moving stuff will look better.

[Flaser]

What about Dell? Their prices are a bit higher but their tech support and warranty is rumored to be top-notch... and they've also released some IPS monitors with *very* competitive prices:

Dell UltraSharp U2311H - 23" wide, 320$
Dell UltraSharp U2211H - 21.5" wide, 230$.

Both of these have IPS panels and the actual (worthwhile) reviews I saw praised them for their good color fidelity, both models cover the sRGB colorspace, so are good enough for graphical work too. Their price is competitive, because they use E-IPS panels (e-for economic) which are *only* as good as older S-IPS panels instead the latest tech used in top line models (which cost 500-1000$ models). BTW said "older" models are used by graphic professionals (who paid a good thousand bucks for them, back in the day), so IMHO these models are still well worth your money.

Their response time is "only 8 ms" - this proves they're indeed IPS panels, since TN are usually quick to point out their "superior" 2 ms response time... absolutely irrelevant and does little to offset their drawbacks (poor black level and color fidelity).

[Bob-san]

U221H: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-9271&~ck=dellSearch&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=7

UltraSharp monitors also support DisplayPort, so anyone with a Radeon HD 5800/6800 can take advantage of that output (and, if you're made of money, run Eyefinity with three IPS panels).

[CP5670]

Those Dells look pretty nice for the prices. If they're based on older generation IPS tech though, then the black levels may be inferior to current TNs. Blacks have never really been a strong point of IPS, despite its other advantages.

[Flaser]

Those Dells look pretty nice for the prices. If they're based on older generation IPS tech though, then the black levels may be inferior to current TNs. Blacks have never really been a strong point of IPS, despite its other advantages.

Not older, but "cheaper". They're up to the same specs as top of the line old S-IPS panels were and graphic designers use those.

[Klaustrophobia]

why are you so hung up on the graphic designer thing?  unless he IS a graphic designer and that's what this monitor is intended for, there are much better choices than something that displays finer color that you'll likely never notice.  for watching movies and playing games, response time IS important and IS noticeable. 

[CP5670]

Those Dells look pretty nice for the prices. If they're based on older generation IPS tech though, then the black levels may be inferior to current TNs. Blacks have never really been a strong point of IPS, despite its other advantages.

Not older, but "cheaper". They're up to the same specs as top of the line old S-IPS panels were and graphic designers use those.

It seems that graphics designers are more concerned with accurate midtones and bright colors than blacks. I've seen a lot of LCDs geared towards professional graphics that have mediocre blacks, and the reviews of such displays don't seem to give much weight to blacks either. As I said, the best TNs right now have better blacks than most IPSs.

I think IPS panels are still the best overall, but they are not ideal in every way and do have their own tradeoffs.