[MP-Ryan]

http://gizmodo.com/5704158/nasa-finds-new-life

At their conference today, NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe Simon will announce that they have found a bacteria whose DNA is completely alien to what we know today. Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic. All life on Earth is made of six components: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Every being, from the smallest amoeba to the largest whale, share the same life stream. Our DNA blocks are all the same.

But not this one. This one is completely different. Discovered in the poisonous Mono Lake, California, this bacteria is made of arsenic, something that was thought to be completely impossible. While she and other scientists theorized that this could be possible, this is the first discovery. The implications of this discovery are enormous to our understanding of life itself and the possibility of finding beings in other planets that don't have to be like planet Earth.

Conference is at 2 PM EST.

This is quite possibly the most important biological discovery since the description of the structure of DNA in the 1950s.

[General Battuta]

Wait holy **** this is jesus piss on a pogo truck driver



and i thought this was going to be another 'black hole nearby*' discovery

[Nohiki]

We're gonna DIE! 

[Kolgena]

wat

I'm going to let my mind sit on this one for a bit.

[Black Wolf]

Dude!

Wow... so we're either looking at some kind of extra terrestrial seeding, second spontaneous generation or some kind of ridiculously early mutation... probably increasing likelihood in that order, but I'd need to see some more data. If the Arsenic just slots in in place of the phosphorus (makes sense given that the're in the same column) then I'd say we're definitely looking at a mutation - well, some kind of chemical mutation anyway... but there're too many other questions - protein structure being the big one, and which specific amino acids it uses. Big deal, regardless.

[MP-Ryan]

Here's some more background on Wolfe-Simon's work:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/eureka/article7040864.ece

[MP-Ryan]

Dude!

Wow... so we're either looking at some kind of extra terrestrial seeding, second spontaneous generation or some kind of ridiculously early mutation... probably increasing likelihood in that order, but I'd need to see some more data. If the Arsenic just slots in in place of the phosphorus (makes sense given that the're in the same column) then I'd say we're definitely looking at a mutation - well, some kind of chemical mutation anyway... but there're too many other questions - protein structure being the big one, and which specific amino acids it uses. Big deal, regardless.

It really depends on the way the chemical is being used.  If it's being used as a phosphorous analog, it's pretty good evidence for a parallel evolutionary option (as the Times article quotes, a "shadow biosphere").  But, it opens up additional possibilities for everything from protein structure to lipid structure - and a chemical composition change could significantly impact the adaptability of an organism for varying environments.  The possibilities are literally endless, even with just simple replacement in DNA.  However, the Times article suggests that the researcher has tried phosphorous deprivation to isolate this bacterium... which says to me that something is replacing phosphorous in most of its biological processes.  That is huge.  Even if its just DNA, it's huge - all the catalytic reactions for DNA creation, editing, and reading use phosphorous normally as a [renewable] energy resource.  If this bacterium is using arsenic instead, that's incredible.  For that matter, it may not be a bacterium at all.  It would make a lot more sense if it was actually Archaea.

EDIT:  We don't need to invoke aliens to explain this though.  Evolution, as we understand it, can theoretically produce this type of organism.

[Flipside]

Stunning news. When I first saw the lake, I thought it was a flooded impact crater, which would have made the find even more incredible at least from an implication point of view, but apparently, it's a lava formation.

Edit: As MP-Ryan states, though, it doesn't detract from the possible impacts of this find or the incredible nature of it.

[Nohiki]

If these bacteria use the same DNA genetic key (same triplets of nucleotides to code ammonia acids) then we're not looking at aliens definitely, even if their DNA has arsenic instead of phosphorus. So far the genetic key is the same for all life on earth. If this is no exception, it's just a new neighbor.

[Kolgena]

Dude!

Wow... so we're either looking at some kind of extra terrestrial seeding, second spontaneous generation or some kind of ridiculously early mutation... probably increasing likelihood in that order, but I'd need to see some more data. If the Arsenic just slots in in place of the phosphorus (makes sense given that the're in the same column) then I'd say we're definitely looking at a mutation - well, some kind of chemical mutation anyway... but there're too many other questions - protein structure being the big one, and which specific amino acids it uses. Big deal, regardless.

It really depends on the way the chemical is being used.  If it's being used as a phosphorous analog, it's pretty good evidence for a parallel evolutionary option (as the Times article quotes, a "shadow biosphere").  But, it opens up additional possibilities for everything from protein structure to lipid structure - and a chemical composition change could significantly impact the adaptability of an organism for varying environments.  The possibilities are literally endless, even with just simple replacement in DNA.  However, the Times article suggests that the researcher has tried phosphorous deprivation to isolate this bacterium... which says to me that something is replacing phosphorous in most of its biological processes.  That is huge.  Even if its just DNA, it's huge - all the catalytic reactions for DNA creation, editing, and reading use phosphorous normally as a [renewable] energy resource.  If this bacterium is using arsenic instead, that's incredible.  For that matter, it may not be a bacterium at all.  It would make a lot more sense if it was actually Archaea.

EDIT:  We don't need to invoke aliens to explain this though.  Evolution, as we understand it, can theoretically produce this type of organism.

I'm not sure how depriving organisms of phosphorus would work. What about ATP/GTP? Does the thing use adenosine tri-arsonate? Does that even work for bioenergetics? Then again, seeing as the organism survives with DNA that is different and substantially bigger than ours, it's likely it also has enzymes adapted to the different energy output for its ATA/GTA (?)

[Flipside]

Come to think of it, it's an aptly named lake in which to find a unique organism.

[MP-Ryan]

If these bacteria use the same DNA genetic key (same triplets of nucleotides to code ammonia acids) then we're not looking at aliens definitely, even if their DNA has arsenic instead of phosphorus. So far the genetic key is the same for all life on earth. If this is no exception, it's just a new neighbor.

Interestingly, there was a discovery not all that long ago in which a research group managed to re-key transcription/translation processes to 4-bp codons instead of three.  Artificially, of course, but it opens up some possibilities =)

I'm not sure how depriving organisms of phosphorus would work. What about ATP/GTP? Does the thing use adenosine tri-arsonate? Does that even work for bioenergetics?

That's what I was suggesting in my edit above - I can't wait to see what the catalytic reactions are using.  If it's using arsenic in place of phosphorous to power transcription/translation processes... I'm very excited =)

[watsisname]

holy **** holy **** holy ****

this is awesome.

I can't wrap my brain around how an organism can possibly use arsenic in its DNA.  What the hell, that's crazier than those little ice worms that literally melt in your hand.

[MP-Ryan]

More from Nature News.  The link to the Science journal article is currently dead (probably waiting for the news conference).

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101202/full/news.2010.645.html

[Nuclear1]

Well, I, for one, welcome our new arsenic-based overlords.

[iamzack]

 

[Galemp]

Is this on cable? What channel? CNN is doesn't have anything but NewsRoom scheduled.

[Bobboau]

should be streaming  here

(someone correct me if I'm wrong)

[MP-Ryan]

Journal article:  http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2010/12/01/science.1197258

NASA page with video:  http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/astrobiology_toxic_chemical.html

[Mongoose]

It's funny, but I just read this about ten minutes ago on another site, and it didn't blow me away nearly as much as it probably should have.  It was more of a, "Oh hey, it incorporates arsenic into its nucleotides.  Cool beans."