[NGTM-1R]

Because we don't know how big it was, any discussion about its possible delivery would be inaccurate and totally subjective.

Bull****. Any delivery mechanism has to be capable of intersystem subspace jumps at minimum. There is no point at which the NTF could have gotten such a thing to a target without sacrificing the majority of their forces to do it. Bosch's run to the nebula proves this.

The GTVA was also clearly aware that ETAK wasn't ready in the first mission sequence of the game, saying it was still under development. By the time its ready status became a debatable matter, there's no way to get it anywhere without losing the war.

[karajorma]

And that's before we get to a more pertinent question. If command did believe that ETAK was a weapon capable of taking out the blockade and therefore pulled it, WTF would they put the Colossus in harm's way at the Gamma Draconis portal only to then allow it to be sabotaged?

[Mobius]

Bull****. Any delivery mechanism has to be capable of intersystem subspace jumps at minimum. There is no point at which the NTF could have gotten such a thing to a target without sacrificing the majority of their forces to do it. Bosch's run to the nebula proves this.

And? We don't know how a WMD works in FreeSpace. We don't know anything about the tactics it requires. We don't know what ETAK as a WMD was supposed to be and work. How can we deduce the rest? As I said before it could have been a special reactor increasing the effectiveness of beams, or anything like that. How would we know?

[Snail]

Am I the only one who sees the absurdity of what Mobius is saying? This is not only conjecture, this is conjecture on conjecture!

[Mobius]

Because we don't know enough to discuss that aspect of this subject. Simple.

Unless there's some canon information about WMDs that I'm missing. The only thing I can think of at the moment is the destruction of the Knossos portal.

[Snail]

ETAK wasn't a WMD. Command thought it was a WMD. Command was wrong.

Need this go any further? Speculation on how powerful Command thought this non-existent WMD is really taking this to a new level of guesswork.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Bull****. Any delivery mechanism has to be capable of intersystem subspace jumps at minimum. There is no point at which the NTF could have gotten such a thing to a target without sacrificing the majority of their forces to do it. Bosch's run to the nebula proves this.

Unless there's some canon information about WMDs that I'm missing. The only thing I can think of at the moment is the destruction of the Knossos portal.

Interestingly enough the meson bomb is not subspace capable, but it can be shifted around via vunerable triton freighter. Perhaps command was afraid ETAK was a meson bomb-esque device and so pulled their blockade, but being aware of such a device's limited ability to deploy they weren't so bothered about it getting anywhere near a habitable world. Or Bosch's deal regarding Sirius went through. (I meant to say withdraw to Sirius from Deneb in my earlier post, got the two systems mixed up.)

Yes Snail conjecture on conjecture is ridiculous, but seeing as how we haven't got a decisive canon answer then why not speculate for the sake of speculation?! Hell I don't think ETAK is a modulated quantum-pulse sender/receiver at all. I think it was a high quality constipation reliever that could potentially ruin the GTVA's economic monopoly on constipation relief, and 'cure' the Shivans of their evil bowel problems.

[Mobius]

ETAK wasn't a WMD. Command thought it was a WMD. Command was wrong.

Need this go any further? Speculation on how powerful Command thought this non-existent WMD is really taking this to a new level of guesswork.

We're not discussing the true nature of ETAK, but rather Command's weird behavior towards Bosch and Iceni, which is of course related to ETAK and what Command thought it was.

[Buckshee Rounds]

We're not discussing the true nature of ETAK, but rather Command's weird behavior towards Bosch and Iceni, which is of course related to ETAK and what Command thought it was.

Maybe command had a good idea of what ETAK was all along. ETAK was a project based on the GTI's research on Shivan specimens during the great war. Maybe the GTI actually discovered that the Shivans utilised a form of quantum pulses for communication. Seeing as how the GTI were eliminated that particular information would only be available to the highest ranking officers of the GTVA of which Bosch would've been before his little crusade.

I think GTVA command may have had at least some idea that ETAK was Shivan-related from the outset and that like the Hades rebellion ETAK and the NTF posed a dire threat to the Vasudans.

Here's some speculative mumbo jumbo that's got me thinking: what if Bosch was sympathetic to the GTI of the Hades rebellion i.e. destroying the Vasudans. Obviously he couldn't have been on the losing side of that conflict or else he wouldn't have been a GTVA admiral, but suppose for a moment that in plundering old GTI research into Shivans he started to agree with the pro-terran ideology of nullifying any alliance with the Vasudans only being the crazy megalomaniac he is he took it one step further and felt an alliance with the Shivans was in humanity's better interest.

In other words Bosch was the GTI hitting back from the grave.

[karajorma]

He flat out claims he doesn't hate Vasudans and only started the war to cover his true purpose, an alliance with the Shivans. An alliance which for some reason he believes the Vasudans could never be part of.

[Snail]

We're not discussing the true nature of ETAK, but rather Command's weird behavior towards Bosch and Iceni, which is of course related to ETAK and what Command thought it was.

We're guessing what Command was guessing ETAK was. This is pointlessly contrived. It makes a hundred times more sense to say that Command didn't want ETAK to be destroyed, rather than thinking up of all of this junk about what Command thought ETAK was and was not possibly or not possibly (impossibly) capable of doing or not doing if given the chance (or not).

It's heavily implied Command knew a lot more than they were letting on and that they were lying through their teeth. IMO, it's better to accept what was probably intended by the writers, rather than making some flawed extrapolations about Command's behavior and "fear" of this "weapon", when none and I really mean none of this was even vaguely implied in the campaign.

[Droid803]

I don't even think that Command actually believes ETAK is a WMD.
They just say it to the pilots. I'm pretty sure Command actually knows what it is, or at least has a vague idea (before they find out for sure whenever).

[Snail]

I don't even think that Command actually believes ETAK is a WMD.
They just say it to the pilots. I'm pretty sure Command actually knows what it is, or at least has a vague idea (before they find out for sure whenever).

Absolutely. That's what is implied, and though there's no way to categorically disprove all this stuff about how Command was scared of Bosch and pulled the Sirius node blockade out of cowardice, there's so little supporting this hypothesis that I think we can pretty much write it off as rubbish.

[karajorma]

I'll point out again. If they were scared of Bosch then why did they later leave the Colossus around to face the Iceni and order the player not to fire on the Iceni in the nebula. Furthermore why the **** wouldn't they let Ahmose kill the Iceni if he could?

The theory is so full of holes I'm using it to drain my noodles for lunch.

[NGTM-1R]

And? We don't know how a WMD works in FreeSpace. We don't know anything about the tactics it requires. We don't know what ETAK as a WMD was supposed to be and work. How can we deduce the rest? As I said before it could have been a special reactor increasing the effectiveness of beams, or anything like that. How would we know?

And that has absolutely nothing to do with my thesis that you still have to get it to the target somehow.

[Mobius]

I don't even think that Command actually believes ETAK is a WMD.
They just say it to the pilots. I'm pretty sure Command actually knows what it is, or at least has a vague idea (before they find out for sure whenever).

What would a group of rebels fighting a superior opponent do? The GTVA knew they were developing something called ETAK, and until they got a change to find out what it really was, they thought it was a WMD.

[Snail]

What would a group of rebels fighting a superior opponent do? The GTVA knew they were developing something called ETAK, and until they got a change to find out what it really was, they thought it was a WMD.

They did not!

They only mentioned, "oh yeah it might be a WMD BTW". They never said "WE THINK IT'S A WMD RUN AWAY OMG OMG OMG"

[Mobius]

It doesn't mean they were willing to put their own assets at danger. They were cautious and we know it. They haven't even tried to attack the Sathanas without a full scan of the ship.

[Snail]

They were cautious and we know it.

We do not know this.  In fact the contrary argument, that Command let Bosch escape is heavily implied, not that Command was being cautious and moved the assets away as a precaution. That is complete fanwank.

[Buckshee Rounds]

They were cautious and we know it.

We do not know this.  In fact the contrary argument, that Command let Bosch escape is heavily implied, not that Command was being cautious and moved the assets away as a precaution. That is complete fanwank.

That term is a bit vulgar. I propose fanmasturbation be used instead.