[The E]

A few reasons why living in the now is so damn awesome.

[Snail]

THE END IS NEAR!!!

[Mika]

Why do I get the feeling that the thread title-like comments are usually misunderstood?

[The E]

All the pointless "Kosh hates Charlie Stross" business has been split out. Debate the points, not the person.

[Mobius]

Nice one, I've read something similar recently.

Charlie states computer's much better. That's fine, true... but what they're doing to this society is far from good. I heard there are 1-2 million Japanese teenagers who absolutely don't have a social life, and spend all time in front of their PCs/consoles. People talk rarely and... now it's become rare to remember person X's birthday because we have Facebook doing that for us.

EDIT: My computer did not want me to say the truth!

[The E]

How can someone who spends all day communicating with people not have a social life?

Also:

but what they're doing to this society is far from bad

is pretty much the opposite of what you wanted to say.

[Snail]

Charlie states computer's much better. That's fine, true... but what they're doing to this society is far from bad. I heard there are 1-2 million Japanese teenagers who absolutely don't have a social life, and spend all time in front of their PCs/consoles. People talk rarely and... now it's become rare to remember person X's birthday because we have Facebook doing that for us.

Japanese hikikomori are pretty bad, but I think that's got more to do with the failing economic situation in Japan than addiction to computers. It's those South Korean mumorpugers you gotta watch out for.

[Mobius]

How can someone who spends all day communicating with people not have a social life?

Communicating via Facebook has nothing to do with real social life.

Also:

but what they're doing to this society is far from bad

is pretty much the opposite of what you wanted to say.

I meant "good". Apparently, my PC did not want me to say the truth. 

It's those South Korean mumorpugers you gotta watch out for.

Yeah, they're in very bad conditions.

[Scotty]

Communicating via Facebook has nothing to do with real social life.

Except, you know, it does, because it's social interaction.  If anything, it makes having a social life easier than ever.

Honestly, it's so much easier and convenient to see a friend that lives a thousand miles away on Facebook than it is to call or write.

[Mobius]

Scotty, if you really want to talk to someone, you do it face to face unless it's impossible. Facebook's presumed positive effects on social life are just an illusion.

[Scotty]

Scotty, if you really want to talk to someone, you do it face to face unless it's impossible. Facebook's presumed positive effects on social life are just an illusion.

Care to back that up with anything?  I doubt it, because it's as pure of an opinion as you're ever going to spout.

I'm not going to spend $10 in gas to drive out to my friends' houses that don't live very close just to say hi when I can do that with Facebook.  Next you're probably going to tell me that the telephone's presumed positive effects on social life are just an illusion.

[NGTM-1R]

Scotty, if you really want to talk to someone, you do it face to face unless it's impossible. Facebook's presumed positive effects on social life are just an illusion.

Cite source right the hell now.

[Snail]

You know, I think I am the only person I know IRL who doesn't have a Facebook. Is this screwed up?

[Mobius]

What kind of source, Scotty and NGTM-1R? Talking to a person via Facebook, chatrooms or forums sure isn't like talking IRL. Well, it helps when we can't see a person all the time, and eventually becomes useful, but that's not true "social life".

[Mongoose]

Japanese hikikomori are pretty bad, but I think that's got more to do with the failing economic situation in Japan than addiction to computers.

Yeah, the hikikomori phenomenon is rather more complex than simple social isolation, and the economic and social turnover in Japan is a big component of it.  I've heard people claim that it's something that could only happen in Japan, but I'm honestly not so sure, since I've heard of people all over the world in similar situations.  (Hell, I just about was myself for a while.)

[NGTM-1R]

What kind of source, Scotty and NGTM-1R? Talking to a person via Facebook, chatrooms or forums sure isn't like talking IRL. Well, it helps when we can't see a person all the time, and eventually becomes useful, but that's not true "social life".

Any kind of source that might have a clue what the **** it's talking about. It's clear you don't. I mean christ on a pogo stick made of ****, it's called "social networking" and it used to have be done in bars and by going to your bosses' parties and other time-consuming and boring activities and now it's quick and easy and you're telling me this is a step backwards?

[iamzack]

What kind of source, Scotty and NGTM-1R? Talking to a person via Facebook, chatrooms or forums sure isn't like talking IRL. Well, it helps when we can't see a person all the time, and eventually becomes useful, but that's not true "social life".

I find it infinitely easier to interact with people online than in person. It's the difference between being able to have a conversation and mumbling something nonsensical and quite literally running away.

Maybe you prefer IRL communication, but that doesn't make a primarily online-based social life less real. Don't be such a purist asshat over your own snobby opinions.

[IceFire]

Japanese hikikomori are pretty bad, but I think that's got more to do with the failing economic situation in Japan than addiction to computers.

Yeah, the hikikomori phenomenon is rather more complex than simple social isolation, and the economic and social turnover in Japan is a big component of it.  I've heard people claim that it's something that could only happen in Japan, but I'm honestly not so sure, since I've heard of people all over the world in similar situations.  (Hell, I just about was myself for a while.)

I hadn't heard of the specific name before but it sounds "interesting" from an academic perspective.

I was nearly in that state myself. For a while I wasn't employed, was living at home with the parents (still am unfortunately) and for a couple of weeks the only time I was outside was to get some groceries and clean up around the house. I think for a few days I didn't even talk to anyone because everyone was out of the house. I'm not good at total social isolation so I organized a pub night to get me out of the house but I can understand where some people might just fall into not going out at all in a situation like that. The difference I guess is that these people have also typically experienced educational failure and that combined with high competition and a poor economy are just stuck - in North America our educational systems provide many more avenues to be successful but the economy sucks.

Still... going along with the OP I'm going to resist calling the "good old days" anything but a creation by those looking back with rose colored glasses. It's not bad right now... on the whole it's pretty good. But it's not super either. I demand better from reality

[Nuke]

i kinda find that social networks are a haven for the anti-social, who are trying to use it as a replacement for a social life proper. for people who already have a social life then social networking becomes a tool for optimizing that social life. most people who use social networks fit into the latter group. for your typical shut-in it becomes not only a total replacement for social interaction, but it also consumes all the time needed to manage a real social life. so it can only compound the individual's already existing problems. its the perfect environment for fueling psychotic behaviors and delusions.

[Mobius]

I find it infinitely easier to interact with people online than in person. It's the difference between being able to have a conversation and mumbling something nonsensical and quite literally running away.

Maybe you prefer IRL communication, but that doesn't make a primarily online-based social life less real. Don't be such a purist asshat over your own snobby opinions.

Oh, I'm not snobby. It's just that I'm well aware of the illusions we usually experience.

Any kind of source that might have a clue what the **** it's talking about. It's clear you don't. I mean christ on a pogo stick made of ****, it's called "social networking" and it used to have be done in bars and by going to your bosses' parties and other time-consuming and boring activities and now it's quick and easy and you're telling me this is a step backwards?

It kills pure interaction between people. When talking to a person, you have to look at his/her eyes, use your hands to better explain what you're saying, etc. etc.

When I started using PCs to "communicate", I lost those capacities and people who don't rely too much on the internet to do things made me notice that. It wasn't funny and led me think a lot about how I changed in the past 4-5 years. Now, I'm not saying I'll change my habits completely, but certainly won't consider Facebook and the like the perfect way to have a social life.