[General Battuta]

This woman is insane, but she must have brass balls. Respect.

[MP-Ryan]

Yup, a certifiable nut.  Though I must admit, the ability to sense magnetic fields with one's body is an intriguing idea... I just don't see how its terribly practical.

[Herra Tohtori]

Yup, a certifiable nut.  Though I must admit, the ability to sense magnetic fields with one's body is an intriguing idea... I just don't see how its terribly practical.

The more interesting thing to me is how the brain will learn to interprete the inputs.

If she can actually develope a tactile "magnetic sense" it would further enforce the hypothesis that the brain are incredibly flexible and capable of building routines, to the extent of adding another "sense". A good example of this is blind people "seeing" with their tongue (an electrode matrix set on top of the tongue, which due to its high nerve density offers fairly good resolution) developing an useable "sight" within surprisingly short time.

I suspect she would first either experience the stimulus as pressure, pain, heat or cold, but depending on how things work out, it is entirely possible that the brain could, with time, isolate these sensations under their own label.

Then it's just a matter of choosing what kind of sensory implants one would have, and to train the brain to identify the signals. Electric fields, magnetic fields, electromagnetic wave motion, cosmic ray detector...

And things need not stop here. If receiver implants can be used to enhance one's senses, why not make transmitter implants as well? Low-resolution ultrasound echolocation wouldn't be too hard to implement. Small ultrasound transmitter and receiver, a microprocessor driven doppler analyzer with output to a sub-dermal electrode matrix, on which the "image" is shown. Note that the transmitter and receiver need not be installed to the body though that would be ideal for portable version. The echolocation device could just as well be a high-powered doppler radar, or infra-red camera, or any camera for that matter. This type of technology could be used in vehicles like cars or airplanes to offer additional sensory inputs about the vehicle itself or its surroundings.

Even at low resolution, an "internal artifical horizon" could be fairly useful for pilots flying in IFR conditions. Similarly if they could have direct sensory access to the ILS system's localizer signal, it could reduce reaction times and make approaches easier.

Not to mention things like direct neural output plugs which could potentially make stuff like pointer devices ultimately useless and thus improve the human-machine interface and general ergonomics of things.


Also, obligatory xkcd plug

[General Battuta]

xkcd sucks

I think you may be overcomplicating things. I imagine the input will continue to be received as touch because (if I recall the article correctly) that's what it is - the magnets are wired into her haptic senses.

[Herra Tohtori]

xkcd sucks

I think you may be overcomplicating things. I imagine the input will continue to be received as touch because (if I recall the article correctly) that's what it is - the magnets are wired into her haptic senses.

Except I doubt she can select which nerve endings actually are in contact with the magnets.

Somatosensory system is a pretty complex system, after all. There are lots of different receptor types in the skin and below, and you can't really expect her to be able to pick which nerve endings the currents will activate - especially with her kitchen surgery methods.

Due to their prominence in human body, it's likely that the magnets activate free nerve endings rather than the capsulated nerve endings specializing in light touch, sustained touch and pressure, deep pressure, fast vibrations, slow vibrations, temperature or pain or some combinations of these

However, the free nerve endings in question are pretty adaptable, and they can detect temperature, mechanical stimuli (touch, pressure, stretch) or pain, so it would still be a complete guesswork as to what type of sensation would be produced by the nerve endings being activated by the current from the magnets. But, due to adapatability of the brain and the free nerve endings themselves, it's likely that the brain would in a relatively short order re-classify those sensations. That would be the key to practical nerve implantation, in my opinion.

[Bobboau]

"Bodily health takes a big ****-off second seat to curiosity"
I think I like this girl.

[Kosh]

Has something like this been done in a more controlled way? Out of curiousity, lets just say we hook up a math co-processor to the brain, would that person suddenly be good at calculating stuff?

[Herra Tohtori]

Has something like this been done in a more controlled way?

Yes. There are multiple examples of such cyborg augmentations, but mostly they are developed from medical perspective, as replacements for damaged or destroyed senses or mobility, rather than expanding our spectrum of senses like this.

Out of curiousity, lets just say we hook up a math co-processor to the brain, would that person suddenly be good at calculating stuff?

Of course not. Mathematics is a higher brain function with lots of abstract concepts, and it's not like you could just "plug something in" to someone's brains. The first problem would be establishing an I/O channel directly to the brain matter, as opposed to using the body's own neural pathways to the brain's sensory parts, but yes, electrode stimulation can activate parts of brain - the problem would be that macroscopic electrodes would activate large brain areas rather than few or individual neurons.

The second problem would be that the brain would have a monumental task in parsing the abstract thinking involved in mathematics into inputs that the math processor could use, then interpreting the output from the math processor.

How would you "input" 81 x 9 to the processor?

How would you read the output (729)?

Abstract, complex tasks like this would be really hard to implement.

[Kosh]

So how could that be implemented, in theory?

[Herra Tohtori]

So how could that be implemented, in theory?

Learning software and learning brain. It would take a long time.

For input, the software on the processor would have to learn to idenfity abstract brain activity and associate it with numbers and operators. Similarly, for output the brain would have to learn to associate the output signals from the device with the abstract concepts of numbers and operators.

It would take a very complex software suite and lots of time and effort to get simple four-function calculator functionality out of the processor, and as such it would likely not be worth the effort. Long numbers could be just as complicated to input and interpret the answers because human short term memory is limited - essentially, you could forget the answer before getting to actually use it.

[Ghostavo]

Long numbers could be just as complicated to input and interpret the answers because human short term memory is limited - essentially, you could forget the answer before getting to actually use it.

And that's why you should add a bunch of RAM sticks before the processor. 

[Herra Tohtori]

My memory is random enough without such augmentation, thank you very much.

[Kosh]

So how could that be implemented, in theory?

Learning software and learning brain. It would take a long time.

For input, the software on the processor would have to learn to idenfity abstract brain activity and associate it with numbers and operators. Similarly, for output the brain would have to learn to associate the output signals from the device with the abstract concepts of numbers and operators.

It would take a very complex software suite and lots of time and effort to get simple four-function calculator functionality out of the processor, and as such it would likely not be worth the effort. Long numbers could be just as complicated to input and interpret the answers because human short term memory is limited - essentially, you could forget the answer before getting to actually use it.

It could be worth the effort in that it provides a good foundation for more useful augmentations.......

[General Battuta]

The case of the neurally linked twins I posted recently suggests that implant-augmented telepathy may be possible. (may!)

[BloodEagle]

xkcd sucks

 

I no longer respect you in any way, shape, or form.

An American body-modification artist of a similar mindset has created small metal discs of neodymium  metal, coated in gold and silicon, which give off mild electric current when in a electromagnetic field. When inserted under the fingertips, this current stimulates the fingers' nerve endings, allowing the bearer to literally feel the shape and strength of electromagnetic fields around power cords or electronic devices.

I wonder what an EMP would feel like....

So how could that be implemented, in theory?

Learning software and learning brain. It would take a long time.

For input, the software on the processor would have to learn to idenfity abstract brain activity and associate it with numbers and operators. Similarly, for output the brain would have to learn to associate the output signals from the device with the abstract concepts of numbers and operators.

It would take a very complex software suite and lots of time and effort to get simple four-function calculator functionality out of the processor, and as such it would likely not be worth the effort. Long numbers could be just as complicated to input and interpret the answers because human short term memory is limited - essentially, you could forget the answer before getting to actually use it.

It could be worth the effort in that it provides a good foundation for more useful augmentations.......

It would most certainly be an interesting implementation, but I think the same effect could nearly be had using a contact-lens-HUD (with a camera) and image-interpretation software.

You would have to actually be looking at the equation, rather than simply thinking it.  But, you know, surgery vs. getting used to a contact lens.

[General Battuta]

xkcd sucks

 

I no longer respect you in any way, shape, or form.

didn't we just have a threadnought about this

[Nuke]

Has something like this been done in a more controlled way? Out of curiousity, lets just say we hook up a math co-processor to the brain, would that person suddenly be good at calculating stuff?

there have been pretty good results from brain implanted electrode array chips. there has also been this.

[Ravenholme]

This woman is insane, but she must have brass balls. Respect.

Not quite german, she lives in Germany and is of german descent, but her home city is Aberdeen, Scotland.

My city.

I'm not sure whether to be horrified or proud. Possibly a mixture of the two is appropriate.

Edit: Nope, having read her blog, she's a native of Scotland.

[Solatar]

Bad. Ass.

[Bobboau]

I'm not sure whether to be horrified or proud. Possibly a mixture of the two is appropriate.

horrifically proud?

there have been pretty good results from brain implanted electrode array chips. there has also been this.

WANT!