[rscaper1070]

I've been trying to find out how much reverse engineering was done with the captured Dragon fighter. Other than the fact that Triton Dynamics developed the control interface for it I haven't been able to find anything. Has anybody made any Terran fighters based off the Dragon?

[MatthTheGeek]

I think the most important tech to be reverse-engineered from the Dragon was fighter inter-system jump drives. Other than that, there probably hasn't been much major technological salvaging from it.

[Hades]

I think the most important tech to be reverse-engineered from the Dragon was fighter inter-system jump drives. Other than that, there probably hasn't been much major technological salvaging from it.

no, that tech was found elsewhere.

[Liberator]

Most likely the reverse engineered the whole thing, main drives, power core, everything, there's a lot of difference between jerry-rigging something for a one off mission and the kind of research that would go into learning how the shivans build ships.  Also, I don't see an enourmous amount of difference between technology levels on the battlefield.  It's more a question of pure scale.  The Shivans build ships bigger than ours and at a rate the dwarfs the alliance.  It took the alliance 20 years to build ONE Collie.  The Shivans built at least 80 ships that are bigger and more fearsome than the Collie and given how willing they were to throw them away with that supernova trick, it's entirely likely that they could afford to lose them because the objective was worth it or(more frighteningly) the Sathanai were disposable due to obsolescence.

[Mars]

The Shivans were indeed more advanced.

It isn't mentioned exactly what technology is gained from it, but the UD-8 Kayser was based on Shivan weaponry. Perhaps from the Dragon.

[NGTM-1R]

I don't think there was actually terribly much to be learned from the Dragon. The design is in a lot of ways a step backward from Terran or Vasudan fighters, and certainly not what's needed to compete with the Shivans. It lacks the time-on-station (because of munitions depletion) and damage resistance to be a good answer to the Shivan fighter hordes.

Doubtless you could glean some kind of improvements from the individual systems, probably shields and possibly power systems and weapons, but I doubt the basic hull structure or the ship as an integrated whole had much to offer to GTVA design.

[Satellight]

The Shivans built at least 80 ships that are bigger and more fearsome than the Collie and given how willing they were to throw them away with that supernova trick, it's entirely likely that they could afford to lose them because the objective was worth it or(more frighteningly) the Sathanai were disposable due to obsolescence.

  I'm curious to know what would have imagined as more powerful juggernaut for FreeSpace 3 ... Frightening is the word.

[Flipside]

I've often toyed with the question "If we hadn't built the C, would the Sathanas have even existed?", which raises a whole heap of questions about what the Shivans actually are

[Galemp]

Has anybody made any Terran fighters based off the Dragon?

The Loki?

[Mars]

I've often toyed with the question "If we hadn't built the C, would the Sathanas have even existed?", which raises a whole heap of questions about what the Shivans actually are

Dark mirror of humanity?

[Flipside]

I've often toyed with the question "If we hadn't built the C, would the Sathanas have even existed?", which raises a whole heap of questions about what the Shivans actually are

Dark mirror of humanity?

That sort of idea, it gives more weight to the 'Revenge of an angry Cosmos' ideology that surrounds them

[Drogoth]

Revenge of an angry cosmos perhaps, but dark mirror of humanity I'm not so sure of. If they are a mirror for us, then why did they kill the ancients?

[Dragon]

Perhaps the same reason we would have killed Vasudans if Shivans didn't stopped us.

[Drogoth]

I find it hard to believe the GTA would have committed genocide against the Vasudans.

In all likelihood whichever side won would demand surrender and likely reparations, etc. I find it hard to believe that he Bastion would just jump into Vasuda and nuke it.

I mean let's face it, the Zods and Terrans are capable of communication.

[Hades]

The ability to communicate isn't enough to overcome the ability to hate.

[Drogoth]

But hate THAT much?

Genocide is a huge step man. While I'm sure some in GTA high command would be prepared for it, I severely doubt that all of command would be on board, and if humanity has truly lost that much moral fiber then we are up **** creek without a paddle.

Perhaps GTVA command circa Blue Planet would have been prepared for genocide, but that's the disconnect I always had with BP i guess. GTVA command was bat**** insane xD. I get that Ubuntu was a threat.. or well they perceived it to be (i felt bad playing WiH because once war started I was definitely cheering for the GTVA... i was pissed when I thought the Carthage was gonna be destroyed). But war never should have happened at all.  Or at least not that quickly. Strategically, militarily I can see why the security council did what they did.. but still. War against earth, after the quest to return to earth just seems a stretch. Also, propaganda or no, Terran citizens GTVA wide would be up in arms.

Either way, GTVA command that decided to invade sol were a collection of megalomaniacs that I have a hard time believing would actually exist simultaneously in positions of authority, thus, i just cant see genocide against the zods.

[General Battuta]

The Harbinger was designed for planetary bombardment. I think it's pretty clear it was used for planetary bombardment. Casualties from that kinda event are definitely at the genocide level.

And no BP command was not insane. *sigh* FreeSpace 2 command allowed the NTF leadership to escape in the hope of capturing a piece of technology that was of use to them. They were perfectly happy sacrificing lives and ethics to achieve their goals. That proud tradition of putting exigencies first carries on.

All your questions are answered in the BP techroom. As far as the Security Council was concerned it was either invade Sol or face the extinction of humanity. What choice would you make?

[Drogoth]

I understand the reasoning, and I did read the BP tech room.

I'm not meaning to pick a fight Battuta, i thought BP ad WiH were EXCELLENT campaigns. The BP team did an excellent job, I enjoyed playing them.

I understand why, but I still think that GTVA command was insane. Sacrificing lives in order to acquire ETAK was also morally reprehensible, but so incredibly different on a psychological level from invading earth. Samuel Bei's reaction upon entering Sol at the end of BP was my reaction. I was flabbergasted, absolutely speechless that command could even consider it. I read the reasons, the reasons were good but were just... it seems to be a major step up from GTVA moral, lack in FS2.

Command sacrificing lives to take ETAK.. horrifying, but it didnt have that sam shock value. Here we are, lost our home world for 50 years. and now we're fighting them? It was horrifying.

I will admit though, gratz to the BP team for delivering one of the best shock value endings I have ever experienced.

[General Battuta]

Well that I can respect, there are doubtless people in the setting who feel the same way you do.

Poke around on these forums and you'll find ardent supporters of the war who will be happy to argue with you. JUST LIKE REAL LIFE

[Drogoth]

Yeah.. sorry if i came across like a douche haha. I guess that, while I know people are really prepared for evil deeds, I like to believe that everyone is essentially good.