Author Topic: Split from Turkey Uni thread  (Read 5021 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
I don't think anyone is saying it's just the fundamentalists. What I've been saying (and I suspect Battuta is too) is that there are historical and political reasons why people in the Islamic world are listening more to the fundamentalists than they did in the past. Same as there are reasons why the Christian world listens to their own fundamentalists less than they used to.

Kosh however seems to want to blame the religion itself. And that's why he's having a problem here. Cause the reason why people listen to the fundamentalists more isn't something that can only happen to Islam. As you said it shares the same root issue with Christianity. To be honest I doubt those two are alone. You can get people to listen to fundamentalist nonsense from any religion or even if they have non. All that changes is the ease with which you can persuade them to listen.
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Offline newman

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
if being muslim made you **** at stuff explain how greek civilization survived the middle ages

You're not usually wrong but this does need a fix. Greece isn't an islamic country - it never was. Their predominant religion is Greek Orthodox, which is actually a form of Christianity.
I do agree with your point, though.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
well, there are some aspects of Islam that do make it more prone to certain problems than, lets say Buddhism, but Christianity shares many of these aspects as well.

and I do not get the sense that kosh is blaming Islam directly, he says things like "Islam" and "Islamic societies" but I feel as though he is referring to the currently dominant culture rather than the religion per se. I could be mistaken though, but that seems like such a nonsensical position that it doesn't occur to me until you point it out..
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 06:43:24 am by Bobboau »
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
Yes but the problem is that the point that it isn't the religion has been pointed out numerous times and not once has he said "You're right, I'm on about the culture not the religion."

It's that very fact that got him banned. All he'd have to do is prove he ISN'T blaming the religion itself. But instead we get posts like this one.

Quote
i'm just here to disconnect the part of your brain that makes you think islam makes any of this happen instead of ALL THE **** THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS

Show me an Islamic country on par with western Europe in terms of social values. Ooops, there aren't any. Imagine that.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
yeah, but he acknowledged the golden age, if he truly felt that the religion it's self was the problem, he would have tried to rationalize that away some how, rather than giving a "yeah, I know, I'm not an idiot" type response. he mentioned how it didn't relate to the current situation, an acceptance that Islam (whatever he means by use of this word) can change.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
So we have no idea whether he feels Islam itself has changed (i.e all Muslims are going to be a problem now that it isn't the Golden Age) or the culture surrounding the religion has changed or if he feels it's a mixture of the two. He gave us nothing. Despite being asked several time on several threads besides this one.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73724.msg1455580#msg1455580

On this thread for instance we have Battuta giving a calm, measured response to Kosh only for him to ignore it and start again from scratch on this thread.

And the less said about this thread (especially the flamebait title) the better. Hell, even High Max knew he was wrong. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 07:42:11 am by karajorma »
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Offline Mika

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
On the original topic, the guy himself starred in the movie? Right on!

Had this happened here, it would have been a death wish for any faculty around here. Sacking the professors / supervisors is the right thing to do in my opinion.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
if being muslim made you **** at stuff explain how greek civilization survived the middle ages

You're not usually wrong but this does need a fix. Greece isn't an islamic country - it never was. Their predominant religion is Greek Orthodox, which is actually a form of Christianity.
I do agree with your point, though.

you're right, but that's not the point I'm making - 'greek civilization' as a cohesive entity, with all its philosophy and progress, was partially preserved in the Muslim parts of the world when things went kinda weird in europe

What is disgusting is that Battuta tried use having a disability as an insult, and for the record I do have one, but neverminding that how is it that certain groups are zealously defended to the point of absurdity and beyond but others get nothing? That is the ultimate problem with leftism, if you aren't in politically favored groups you're fair game.

it wasn't the most graciously delivered question, but it was a genuine question; i was asking if there was something I needed to take into account here that could explain the trouble you were having.

now i know

If you wanted to figure out why he kept dodging, as you say, then wouldn't it have been better to specifically ask him?  Re-post a point you made, and then ask him to respond specifically to one of your points.  But you didn't do that; you kept carrying on with different insults.

wait are you even reading this thread, i did exactly that - exactly that!

of course i guess it's also possible that this was done in one of the two previous threadnoughts we've had on this topic where I was perfectly reasonable with Kosh

by 'possible' I mean 'absolutely certain'

look at the thread kara just linked - http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73724.msg1455580#msg1455580 - and there's been another clone of it as well recently

the rest of your post is truly bizarre; you've been told more than once now why Kosh's points weren't being directly addressed; they were never points in contention and had as much to do with the argument as the assertion that sheep are fluffy and sort of off-white

Quote
Heh.  You think Christians aren't hurt by (to pick on Nemesis6 now) Nemesis6's frequent posting of articles hostile to Christianity, complete with his own derogatory commentary?

no, i definitely think they are, which might be why I've been all over him about it and suggested the same treatment Kosh is getting
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 12:08:51 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
Quote
Heh.  You think Christians aren't hurt by (to pick on Nemesis6 now) Nemesis6's frequent posting of articles hostile to Christianity, complete with his own derogatory commentary?

no, i definitely think they are, which might be why I've been all over him about it and suggested the same treatment Kosh is getting

I know I sure as hell get pissed off about it.  At least he sometimes tries to back up his arguments with more than rhetoric.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
So where do you have to study in the United States to make Pron movies for your PHD...

... the more i think of it the more i can see all kinds of people (especially mothers) displaying quite some outrage... and once the media gets involved....

seriously... would it be all that different? After all, we're talking about a country with a long Puritan history that is often chided as "Land of the Prude" across the world ... 
I really do wonder how a land where a peek of boob on television causes national outrage would react to Pron movies at universities once some righteous mommies got wind of it and the media started to smell a story mh ?;)

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
GB's arguement has some merit. But this is an inquisition. Some of Kosh's comments were offensive, but this reaction has gone a little too far. Let's not be like Kazan.

And General Battuta, what the hell happened to you? When I first read those posts my first reaction was to wonder if you were drunk - because it was so out of character for you. And that disability comment was way out of line. What happened to the calm and amiable Battuta, the voice of reason? Seriously, what the hell? Calm down man. He isn't worth it.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 02:19:27 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
That Batttuta, I've long come to suspect, is dead.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
tee hee

also i don't drink or drug, i am 100% straight edge like minor threat

Quote
And that disability comment was way out of line

man, you ask a simple question to try to understand why someone's behaving some way so you can avoid making horrifyingly offensive remarks, and suddenly everyone's all up in your front yard

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
What he said was quite offensive upon further review, but this has gone too far. Don't flip out. You're an admin. Act like one. You know, like you used to be.

Sigh. In the olden days someone like Rictor would shut both of you up with actual, reasonable arguments, and I wouldn't be feeling like this forum has gone Lord of the Flies.

My mistake for coming back. Bye.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 02:30:10 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
maybe you're right

maybe it's time to go back to the light

i've seen so much

but yeah, make sure 'further review' includes the previous threadnoughts on this topic where the same arguments were presented much more reasonably, i'm not sure why people expect the same level of calm on the third go round

edit: oh he ragequit, but i'm not even an admin!

  

Offline Snail

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
:(

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
i'm not sure why people expect the same level of calm on the third go round

Because as a moderator that is the standard you are held to.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
only in relation to using moderator mojo; as far as i'm concerned if i don't bring the gun closet into the debate i can do whatever i please

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
I'd honestly have to disagree with that.  Moderators on any forum are held as being representative on that forum as a whole just by virtue of holding that position.  In other words, if you as a Global Moderator fly off the handle in some particular topic (and I'm not saying you yourself have), you're sending the implicit message that it's okay for any normal user to do the exact same thing, which is kind of a Bad Thing in general.  Your actual mod powers don't even have to enter into the equation...the simple fact that you are a staff member of the website holds you to something of a higher standard than your Joe Everyposter.  That's especially true since your Global Moderator badge sticks with you wherever you post, unlike we mere folder mods, who get to go a bit more incognito. :p

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Split from Turkey Uni thread
you are probably the correctness

anyway i have had a nice chat with kosh and everything is fine, so