Poll

Which sentence sounds better to you?

Definitely (1)
30 (76.9%)
Leaning towards (1)
4 (10.3%)
No preference
4 (10.3%)
Leaning towards (2)
0 (0%)
Definitely (2)
1 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Voting closed: February 10, 2011, 07:12:57 am

Author Topic: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions  (Read 5234 times)

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Offline TopAce

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Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
The Question

We have sentences like these in English:

1) John and I went to the cinema.
2) John and me went to the cinema.

The difference is one pronoun - an I and a me - and both sentences mean the same. Both are used, but there's debate about which one is "more" correct.

I'd like to make a survey here at HLP. What do you think about the two sentences above? Which one is correct/preferable, and why? Also if you decide to post, please indicate if you're a native speaker or not.

My Comment (non-native speaker)
I personally prefer 1) because "I went to the cinema" is a valid sentence, while "Me went to the cinema" is not. John is simply an additional agent in the sentence, so there's no (grammatical) reason to change the nominative I to the accusative me. However, I don't mind hearing 2), because I'm aware that it's widely used.

In addition, I was taught to use 2) because "it was nicer," but as soon as I started to view this sentence pair more critically, I started to prefer 1).
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Offline Wobble73

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
The first one is definitely correct, the second would be more correct if it read.... "Me and John went to the cinema" not "John and me", but still the preferred option in the native English language would be the first.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
'John and I' is the standard English version, you might get away with 'John and myself', but, strictly speaking 'John and me' would be considered passable, but wrong.

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
I'm not sure if I count as a native-speaker. I've been away from the states for 6 years and my English has suffered.
But I'd definitely choose 1) over 2).

Personally I haven't heard 2) used too much with native-speakers.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
i usually go with 2, even though its grammatically incorrect.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
A lot of people say 2, but it's definitely incorrect, for exactly the reason you stated (about the proper sentence using I).
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
Grammar is not decided by popular vote.

1.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
languages evolve by people not adhering to the strict code of grammar.
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Offline Solatar

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
'I' is in the English subjective case (nominative case for everyone else).  The way this becomes confusing is when somebody decides they are smarter than everyone and says "*he went to the movies with John and I" - thinking they are being correct, and probably acting smug about it.  In that case, you would use "John and me" because you use the objective case (accusative for other languages) after a preposition.

So you'll hear both 'John and I' and "John and me", but they aren't interchangeable.

Colloquial English likes to use 'me' instead of I, but it also likes to say 'me and John'.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
Leaning towards 1, I don't follow a particular rule when speaking/writing English sentences... from the start I've always been repeating the sentence to myself and then choosing the one that I feel to correct.


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Offline Flipside

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
'I' is in the English subjective case (nominative case for everyone else).  The way this becomes confusing is when somebody decides they are smarter than everyone and says "*he went to the movies with John and I" - thinking they are being correct, and probably acting smug about it.  In that case, you would use "John and me" because you use the objective case (accusative for other languages) after a preposition.

So you'll hear both 'John and I' and "John and me", but they aren't interchangeable.

Colloquial English likes to use 'me' instead of I, but it also likes to say 'me and John'.

Actually, under classical English, 'Me and John' is considered bad manners, but it's a very old rule.

 

Offline Solatar

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
It is (and I was taught that growing up as well, always put yourself last) but it doesn't change the fact that it's commonly spoken.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
Agreed, I don't even know if that rule is taught any more.

 

Offline Qent

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
I'm a native speaker. I consider the first correct and the second incorrect, and I use the first.

I say "It's me" although I consider that incorrect, because it sounds better.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
1 is grammatically correct, though around here it's much more common to hear "me and John".  i probably use that one more often too, but "John and me" sounds terrible to me. 
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
Labelling either one of these incorrect if used in speech (including written dialogue) as opposed to text is a sign of terrible grammatical pendancy and should result in a death sentence.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
God forbid there should be rules or anything :p

Edit: And just to clarify, yes, I know what you mean, when presented as dialogue, anything goes ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 01:05:58 pm by Flipside »

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
I say "It's me" although I consider that incorrect, because it sounds better.
That's pretty much my only exception too.  I know "It's me" is grammatically incorrect, but "It's I" sounds nothing short of unnatural. :p

 

Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
I say "It's me" although I consider that incorrect, because it sounds better.
That's pretty much my only exception too.  I know "It's me" is grammatically incorrect, but "It's I" sounds nothing short of unnatural. :p
But "It is I" sounds stylish, because Dak'kon in Planescape: Torment said that.
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14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Quick survey - pronoun usage in <noun> + and + <pronoun> constructions
It's probably better not to abbreviate 'It is' in those cases, in England we still use 'It is I', though more as a sort of Comedy thing, and we even use the much more archaic "'Tis I" as well, ('Tis being an extremely old abbreviation of 'It is')