Author Topic: The Tea Party  (Read 18972 times)

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Offline StarSlayer

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I guarantee you 90% of Tea Partiers don't know the difference between socialism and communism, and how the Democratic Party is nowhere near even the most remote definition of socialist.

Or the difference between Communism and Absolute Monarchy apparently:



I'm pissed they're going to degrade the "Don't Tread on Me" flag.  That's a cool flag, it doesn't need to be soiled by them.
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Offline Mongoose

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Yeah, that's what gets me the most too.  That flag was totally badass until people started misusing it all over the place.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Yeah, that's what gets me the most too.  That flag was totally badass until people started misusing it all over the place.

i chalk it in for tiles in my hopscotch games

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Yeah, that's what gets me the most too.  That flag was totally badass until people started misusing it all over the place.

i chalk it in for tiles in my hopscotch games

That's actually a pretty badass idea.
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Offline Polpolion

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Yeah, that's what gets me the most too.  That flag was totally badass until people started misusing it all over the place.

i chalk it in for tiles in my hopscotch games

can I play too? sounds cool

 

Offline sayoqod

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hate runaway spending (because Fox told them it was bad)


So a $1.4 trillion deficit is nothing to worry about? :wtf:

We've had an outlandish deficit for quite a while now. No one's saying it isn't a problem, it just can't all be blamed on obama :/
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Offline Drogoth

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hate runaway spending (because Fox told them it was bad)


So a $1.4 trillion deficit is nothing to worry about? :wtf:

Proportionally I'm not actually sure we're doing that badly compared to some historical instances.

Proportionally perhaps. But that doesn't help much when the country is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. It doesn't matter how bad things might have been in comparison in the past, because circumstances were different and solutions may have been available that are unavailable now, and vice versa. Point being, Repubs and Dems need to learn to work together rather then being vehemently opposed to anything the other says, or else the country WILL collapse into bankruptcy. Eventually. Solutions only work when the government isn't paralyzed, after all.
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I think it's impossible to work together when the people you have to work with are as fanatical as Tea Partiers. Fanaticism doesn't allow for compromise, and no rational person could bow to their demands.

Cooperation also requires mutual respect. Whenever I heard news about the past US election, it was always about Sarah Palin making veiled threats and the crowd responding with booing or making threats of their own. That's not respectful.

So there's no way to work with them.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 10:02:22 pm by bobbtmann »

 

Offline BloodEagle

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One could argue that societal self-destruction is an inevitability due to Mankind's genetic prelation for self-gain, if one were a pedantic ass-hat.

  

Offline WeatherOp

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Democrats = idiots

Republicans = idiots

Tea Party = idiots

Its much easier this way, it's just some hide it better than others. :P

I think it's impossible to work together when the people you have to work with are as fanatical as Tea Partiers. Fanaticism doesn't allow for compromise, and no rational person could bow to their demands.

Cooperation also requires mutual respect. Whenever I heard news about the past US election, it was always about Sarah Palin making veiled threats and the crowd responding with booing or making threats of their own. That's not respectful.

So there's no way to work with them.

No offense and don't take this as me defending the tea party, but by saying that do you really believe if the Tea Party did not exist there would be compromise? Heck no.
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Offline redsniper

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Repubs and Dems ... work together
:wakka: :wakka: :wakka:

From what I've seen, the really hardcore activist Democrats and Republicans would happily watch the country burn before they ever conceded even the slightest positive thing about the other party, and the more moderate, level-headed citizens are too busy dealing with work and kids and... real life to be bothered making a scene on TV about politics.
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Offline Nuclear1

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That's actually pretty accurate.  99% of the active posters at Democratic Underground have no intention of saying even the slightest nice thing about someone with an (R), and I doubt anyone on Free Republic would do the same for a (D).
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Offline Nemesis6

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A nice perspective. The anti-christ thing is also very indicative of where they're coming from with this stuff.

 

Offline Sushi

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I think it's impossible to work together when the people you have to work with are as fanatical as Tea Partiers. Fanaticism doesn't allow for compromise, and no rational person could bow to their demands.

See, this is what worries me: when people are absolutely convinced that the "other side" is completely crazy and can't be reasoned with. That's where things start to get ugly.


 

Offline Mars

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Technically, the US is a socialist state by definition, rather then a democracy.

Or so my teacher said. It wasn't some nutballs political statement, it was something that I remember her having good reasons for pointing out.

For the record, Socialism is not a SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. Democracy is a SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT.

Democracy, Theocracy, Authoritarianism,  all describe a system of government; i.e. the power distribution.

Socialism, Communism, Capitalism all describe different types of economic systems.


Socialism is not an opposite of democracy; in fact, many have made the argument that socialism cannot really exist outside of a democracy, and vice versa. (I do have many quotes, and if anyone really wants me to, I can dig them up)

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Socialism is not an opposite of democracy; in fact, many have made the argument that socialism cannot really exist outside of a democracy, and vice versa. (I do have many quotes, and if anyone really wants me to, I can dig them up)

Exactly.  Reform socialism and social democracy simply can't exist without democracy. 

That's the problem the US...everyone thinks Socialism, and their minds jump straight to the authoritarian USSR.  Socialism may have been it's economic system, but the USSR was authoritarian through and through.  Not all socialist systems are prone to authoritarian rule, and not all authoritarian countries utilize a socialist economy.
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Offline esarai

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I think the Tea Partiers have more than proven their craziness.  Showing up at democratic rallies carrying firearms and interrupting the proceedings?  It's sending the message they'd rather reason with bullets than with brains.  I dunno about you, but I believe that such fear tactics have no place in a democratic society.  Their antics put them on my 'aspiring tyrants' list.  They should put the guns and threats away if they want to be taken seriously.

I agree, denouncing one side as out-and-out crazy and rejecting the possibility of further discourse is utterly illogical, but let's face it, they've pretty much said 'we're done talking'.  I'm thankful the Dems haven't said the same.  I hope the few reasonables within the TP ranks can help reign them in.

And it is really sad that the combined system of governance and economic policy we should be calling 'Stalinism' is what everyone believes communism to be.  Thus why we should cut the military budget in half and devote the resources to the Dept. of Education.
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<Axem>he threw out all those tax collectors at the temple
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Offline Goober5000

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Some corrections seem to be in order here.


I'm just curious about how the Tea Party intends to lower the deficit while cutting spending AND lowering taxes. Cutting spending works while income remains steady. It doesn't work if your net income is still 0. Or in this case negative numbers.
Lowering the deficit in this way works if you cut spending faster than you cut taxes.  I should think this would be obvious.

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I don't get it. Is there some disconnect where Tea Party members don't know what taxes are for? Do roads just pop into existence? Lights. police, schools, etc?
You're conveniently forgetting everything else that drains the budget.  Social security, national defense, interest on the debt, executive departments, etc. are much higher on the list.  In fact, many cities are raising taxes and cutting back on road work, maintenance, etc. because public pensions require such a large share of the pie.


What's hilarious to me is their militant advocacy for undoing the very institutions that keep citizens safe, and I'm not talking about the local public service ones.  Imagine the crap we'd get ourselves into if we shut down all the federal government regulatory institutions?  They're leaky enough as it is now, but if they just weren't there in the first place... hell, that's what we'd get.
What institutions are you referring to here?


Tea Party's mostly formed by a bunch of poorly-educated white people who hate runaway spending (because Fox told them it was bad), socialists/communists (because the Cold War told them it was bad), and big government (because Glenn Beck told them it was bad).
That's an unsupported generalization, and falls into the soft-serve mudslinging category...

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And the one thing I've always found interesting; the Tea Party sat by idly for eight years while Bush expanded the government and absolutely exploded the deficit, but as soon as Obama was elected, they decided it was a problem?  (Oh wait...I forgot...Bush was a white Republican...)
This is probably due, in a large part, to the phenomenon Battuta has mentioned previously: people tend to look the other way if the economy is doing all right.  However, your premise is incorrect: the opposition started when the recession hit, which was before Obama was elected.  Many people forget that the first TARP bill (introduced in the last months of the Bush administration) was voted down due to strong populist opposition, until the politicians caved to the bankers' doomsday scenarios.

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I also don't know why everyone's surprised that the TP is turning violent; what did you expect out of a group that it named itself after a group of colonists that dressed up in Native American war attire and destroyed an entire shipment of cargo?
Please cite where the Tea Party has become violent.


Or the difference between Communism and Absolute Monarchy apparently:

This refers to the "czars", both current and proposed, which are in charge of various bureaucratic regulatory bodies and thus unaccountable to the people.  Climate czar, TARP czar, Internet czar, food czar, etc.  It's drawing a link between the unaccountability of the appointed czars and the unaccountability of the Soviet government.


I think it's impossible to work together when the people you have to work with are as fanatical as Tea Partiers. Fanaticism doesn't allow for compromise, and no rational person could bow to their demands.

See, this is what worries me: when people are absolutely convinced that the "other side" is completely crazy and can't be reasoned with. That's where things start to get ugly.
This.  Sushi's point bears repeating.


I think the Tea Partiers have more than proven their craziness.  Showing up at democratic rallies carrying firearms and interrupting the proceedings?  It's sending the message they'd rather reason with bullets than with brains.  I dunno about you, but I believe that such fear tactics have no place in a democratic society.  Their antics put them on my 'aspiring tyrants' list.  They should put the guns and threats away if they want to be taken seriously.
So exercising rights is equivalent to fear tactics?  If a police officer pulls you over and you choose to remain silent, can he then arrest you for intimidation?

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Tea Party's mostly formed by a bunch of poorly-educated white people who hate runaway spending (because Fox told them it was bad), socialists/communists (because the Cold War told them it was bad), and big government (because Glenn Beck told them it was bad).
That's an unsupported generalization, and falls into the soft-serve mudslinging category...
Fair enough.  The most outspoken ones certainly fit this category though.

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And the one thing I've always found interesting; the Tea Party sat by idly for eight years while Bush expanded the government and absolutely exploded the deficit, but as soon as Obama was elected, they decided it was a problem?  (Oh wait...I forgot...Bush was a white Republican...)
This is probably due, in a large part, to the phenomenon Battuta has mentioned previously: people tend to look the other way if the economy is doing all right.  However, your premise is incorrect: the opposition started when the recession hit, which was before Obama was elected.  Many people forget that the first TARP bill (introduced in the last months of the Bush administration) was voted down due to strong populist opposition, until the politicians caved to the bankers' doomsday scenarios.
Also true.  They were quick enough to blame Obama for things that even Bush did though.  I can't imagine all the times I've had to hear someone accuse of Obama of passing TARP and bailing out Fannie and Freddie.  It's just politically convenient for them to blame the other party.

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I also don't know why everyone's surprised that the TP is turning violent; what did you expect out of a group that it named itself after a group of colonists that dressed up in Native American war attire and destroyed an entire shipment of cargo?
Please cite where the Tea Party has become violent.

...really?  Death threats against Democrats who voted for the health care bill, carrying guns to town halls, spitting on Democrats on the Capitol steps.

Oh, and do I even need to mention "Second Amendment remedies", "if ballots don't work, bullets will", "don't retreat, reload", "you're gonna have to shoot them in the head", "you gotta make the other guy afraid to come out of his own house", and hosting political fundraisers at gun ranges.  The Tea Party hasn't killed anyone yet, but if this kind of nonsense keeps up, I'd be shocked if we DIDN'T have another Oklahoma City.

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This refers to the "czars", both current and proposed, which are in charge of various bureaucratic regulatory bodies and thus unaccountable to the people.  Climate czar, TARP czar, Internet czar, food czar, etc.  It's drawing a link between the unaccountability of the appointed czars and the unaccountability of the Soviet government.
Oddly enough, Bush had far more czars than Obama does right now.  Again, no Tea Party there.

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This.  Sushi's point bears repeating.
Whenever they want to stop calling me and everyone who believes what I believe "the enemies of the Constitution", I'd be happy to sit down and have a chat.  Oh, and it would be nice if they didn't try to kill me too.

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So exercising rights is equivalent to fear tactics?  If a police officer pulls you over and you choose to remain silent, can he then arrest you for intimidation?
Death threats, carrying firearms to public events, and threatening a violent uprising if they don't get their way isn't the Tea Party exercising their rights.  Not only are those things illegal, they also fit this bill:
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The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.
That's the Department of Defense's definition of terrorism.  Threatening to murder Democratic politicians and threatening to violently overthrow the government if healthcare reform passes ("we came unarmed...this time") crosses the line from political activism to downright domestic terrorism.

Now, I could tolerate this if it was a small minority doing it...but since none of the Tea Party leaders want to renounce these people (and they haven't....I've looked), it just says that they support what these domestic terrorists are saying.  Now I know there's plenty of sensible people in the Tea Party with legitimate concerns, but until that part gets vocal and disavows the violent part, I'm not going to listen to them. 
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 
The president's part of the NWO who wants to kill 80% of the world's population

I never understood conspiricy theorists joining the Tea Party rally. If anyone's involved in a conspiracy, the republicans are. Cutting taxes for the rich and the corperations, but not the middle and lower classes. Aboloshing any healthcare plan so that the citizens are at the mercy of the corperations. The 'war on Terror', fighting everyone who attempts to break free from USA involvement, demonization of authorian regime's that keep corperate power in control (or try to), etc.