Author Topic: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada  (Read 4031 times)

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Offline Nemesis6

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"Usage-based billing" hits Canada
http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/02/01/usage-based-billing-hits-canada-say-goodbye-to-internet-innovation/

Quote
O, Canada, what have you done? The country’s Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, has passed sweeping new regulations that will force Internet Service Providers to switch to so-called usage-based billing—metered pricing, in less flowery language. That means ISPs there will charge customers by the gigabyte for Internet access, and that’s on top of a flat service fee. There’s nothing particularly new about metered pricing, but the fact that it’s being implemented on a country-wide basis surely merits a quick discussion.

It should be obvious that the only “winners” here are the ISPs (and even then, only the big ISPs who have established, old methods of content delivery to protect) who now stand to make a cool mint as a result of the new fees. Data caps have been drastically lowered—one small, independent ISP was forced to slash its cap from 200GB per month to 25GB per month—and the CRTC has set overage rates at CAD$1.90 per gigabyte over the cap. (Heaven forbid you live in the French-speaking region of the country, as you’ll be expected to cough up CAD$2.35 per gigabyte.) All that means is that you’re free to browse the Internet to the tune of 25GB per month, but the second you break through that barrier you’ll have to pay through the nose. Not fun.

The move couldn’t possibly come at a worse time for companies like Netlix and Apple, or for the everyday people who rely on them.

Services like Netflix’s video streaming chew through bandwidth like chlorofluorocarbons through the ozone layer, or like fire through Fernando Torres shirts. The average Netflix film will use around 1GB of data—and that number will only increase as Netflix improves the quality of its streams. It’s not impossible to imagine a scenario in which a casual movie viewer can quickly brush up against the aforementioned 25GB bandwidth limit.

So unbelievably stupid! Why on earth would they do this? :lol:

I think it's a valid question to ask whether the people who sit on this commission have actually tried using the internet, or read about it and stuff.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 09:13:32 am by Nemesis6 »

 

Offline Topgun

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Glad I don't live in the frozen north.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
It's already under heavy pressure from just about every Canadian party. I expect a review and possibly some change.

 

Offline Nemesis6

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
To give some perspective -- The only time one would be presented with a cap here where I live in Denmark, is if one chooses to go with the biggest (former state-owned telecommunications monopoly) ISP, and going specifically with their 30 or 50 mbit connections, which are presented with a 210 gigabytes-per-month cap, and the canucks are gonna get a 25 gb limit on an "up to 5 megabits" connection?! Another thing is: Prices for internet connections here in Denmark are pretty much equalized across the board -- a 20/1 connection from one provider will cost the same from another.

I chose not to get one of those big connections from the biggest ISP because of the cap on them, but even then, you're not gonna be charged or otherwise throttled if it just happens once in a while. Apparently it's only if you're a consistant line(bandwidth)-stepper that you will actually be throttled, as opposed to the poor canucks who will be paying by the dollar!

What I don't get is, how did these people pass this legislation in the first place? I mean people must be keeping an eye on what these people are passing, proposing and otherwise pondering...?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 09:23:45 am by Nemesis6 »

 

Offline headdie

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
If this happened in the UK there would be calls for a corruption inquiry into OFCOM.  the regulators are supposed to be for fighting the people's corner not big business ffs
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
What I don't get is, how did these people pass this legislation in the first place? I mean people must be keeping an eye on what these people are passing, proposing and otherwise pondering...?

I think you're confused here; I don't believe the group in question is a legislature.

The Canadian government itself appears prepared to reverse the decision, so that suggests everything is working fine.

 

Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
To give some perspective -- The only time one would be presented with a cap here where I live in Denmark, is if one chooses to go with the biggest (former state-owned telecommunications monopoly) ISP, and going specifically with their 30 or 50 mbit connections, which are presented with a 210 gigabytes-per-month cap, and the canucks are gonna get a 25 gb limit on an "up to 5 megabits" connection?! Another thing is: Prices for internet connections here in Denmark are pretty much equalized across the board -- a 20/1 connection from one provider will cost the same from another.

I chose not to get one of those big connections from the biggest ISP because of the cap on them, but even then, you're not gonna be charged or otherwise throttled if it just happens once in a while. Apparently it's only if you're a consistant line(bandwidth)-stepper that you will actually be throttled, as opposed to the poor canucks who will be paying by the dollar!

What I don't get is, how did these people pass this legislation in the first place? I mean people must be keeping an eye on what these people are passing, proposing and otherwise pondering...?

The reason it happened was the CRTC (The regulatory body that is supposed to protect canadians) has been co-opted and is run by former Bell Canada employees, so they help their corporate buddies while preventing any competition from challenging the telecom giants. However, the petition to stop this grew from 70,000 to 350,000 in three days, three major political parties have questioned the decision, with two of those three outright denouncing it, and with an election coming up in the spring or fall most likely, this will probably  become a major issue, and I doubt this usage based billing will go through.

On another note, a lot of it is pent up rage over substandard overpriced telecom service for years and they went one step to far this time. Stopping UBB would be desirable but I would hope this leads to a complete overhaul and/or abolishment of the CRTC and can change he telecom industry from the ground up. The greed of Bell and Rogers has been insane for years, and its catching up to them.

Pissing off your customers isn't a sustainable business model. Why do people always go for short term profits over long term profits? Makes no sense. I would think even a 5 year old could figure that out, apparently Bell and Rogers could not, and I hope this is the beginning of the end for their monopoly.

Sorry about my long answer haha, as  a Canadian this is a big issue for me, and I share in aforementioned pent up rage. I hate my cellphone provider and my ISP but I have zero option because the regulation prevents competition. I am for regulation, but when it fails, as the CRTC is, it needs to be overhauled and fixed because it has become corrupt. Or it needs to be scrapped. Case by case basis, either free competition or fixed regulation will work in this case.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 10:10:53 am by Drogoth »
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
According to the Globe, "The Harper government will overturn the CRTC’s decision that effectively ends “unlimited use” Internet plans if the regulator doesn’t rescind the decision itself."

^ As of 5 PM yesterday, PST. Allthough this still allows them to charge UBB, they have to offer unlimited plans as well. Openmedia, its petition, and its efforts will continue though, because knowing Bell and Rogers they'll make their unlimited plans garbage so we don't want them.
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Offline castor

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
This, when economies of the world rush towards greater exploitation of immaterial goods (for obvious reasons). Stagnant.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
There has been an immense amount of misinformation about this ruling, so I'll attempt to set the record straight (since I've been following it pretty closely).

- Canada has three large telecom providers that span multiple provinces:  Telus, Bell, and Rogers.  Internet service has a few other large players (Shaw Communications) and many small players.  For the most part, network infrastructure is purchased, maintained, and operated by the "Big 3" and Shaw (which operates only in Western provinces, and who is my ISP).

- The telecom industry is regulated by an arms-length agency called the Canadian Radio-Telecommunications Commission (CRTC).  The CRTC is most famous for enforcing the infamous "Canadian-content" rules that ensure, in addition to quality Canadian and international programming, we get an additional percentage of programming that is mandated by law to be of Canadian origin.  If you think that's a ridiculous rule, imagine how the vast majority of people here feel.

- The CRTC has a long and distinguished history of decisions that attempt to find a "middle-ground" between the sides being argued.  Net neutrality died in Canada because of this, much to the concern of everyone who wasn't a telecom provider.

- In the Eastern provinces particularly, a number of small ISPs are permitted to use the networks of the larger providers to deliver services; essentially, they are middlemen.  They lease bandwidth from the network owners and operators at rates determined by the CRTC, and the network owners are required to let them.  Thus, artificial competition is created - the small guys can set low prices and pull customers from the larger ISPs, who in turn have to keep their prices low.

- Until this latest decision, the rates at which the small ISPs purchased network usage from the large network owners (who are also ISPs) were flat.  This allowed the small ones to operate "unlimited bandwidth" plans, in which approximately 20% of their customer base used up to 80% of the total network capacity.  Fees for maintenance and network expansion were low or non-existent; the network operators (which, to be fair, aren't exactly hurting) had to pay their own infrastructure costs.

- In Western Canada, these "artificial competitors" largely don't exist.  I have two choices of ISP:  Telus, or Shaw.  Both have fixed bandwidth caps, and offer a variety of plans at different rates (which, compared to the US or Europe, are obscenely high).

- The recent CRTC decision allowed network owners to bill those ISPs riding on their infrastructure in accordance with their usage of the overall network; essentially, it would make unlimited plans prohibitively expensive for the smaller operators.

The decision didn't eliminate the ability of providers to offer unlimited bandwidth, but it prevented smaller ISPs who don't own or service their own infrastructure from providing plans which their competitors who own the network do not without paying extra for that ability.  So, in many ways, it makes a lot of sense - for years, some areas have benefitted from artificially low costs (compared to the rest of the country) for Internet.  On the flip side, permitting the network operators to charge the small ISPs based on the bandwidth used eliminates the [granted, artificial] competition that keeps the larger ISPs prices low to compete with the small ones who maintain a competitive advantage.  However, the country already largely has usage-based billing (as do other countries) - most plans from the larger ISPs have specified bandwidth caps, above which you pay per-use.  This decision doesn't change that in the slightest.

Now, the government is stepping in to reverse the CRTC decision (according to today's updates, the CRTC is reviewing its own decision) and return things to the days of artificial competitiveness.

So, despite being a huge proponent of net neutrality and low-cost Internet for everyone, I actually kind of agree with the CRTC's original decision - network's should have the ability to charge their competitors based on their usage.  Bandwidth is a finite resource on a network.  That is not to say that I think the ISP market in Canada is healthy - rather, I think some introduction of alternative forms of competition is necessary to prevent us becoming even more of a telecom backwater.

I've read several position papers in the last year that effectively argue that the billing and usage methods of the future are going to eliminate "unlimited" use plans for TV, Internet, and mobile data, but expand services so that you will pay for a bandwidth allotment each month, and be able to use that as you please.  This is talking about the global market - currently, Americans pay significantly above the actual cost for voice plans on mobile devices while paying immensely under the cost for their unlimited data bundles.  Europeans too, for that matter.  Eventually, we're all going to be billed on what we use, but we'll have the ability to choose what it is used to actually do.  That, I think, makes a lot of sense.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 04:51:16 pm by MP-Ryan »
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Firstly, this 'artificial competition' has a very specific purpose. They are supposed to gather profits until they can build their own  network. Bell/Telus/Rogers charging them massive amounts to use the network inhibits that ablity and leads to this monopoly the big 3 + shaw have, because let's get serious, they actively work together to keep prices high.

Now, the amount of the network being used is a valid concern. However, The big 3 + shaw (btw im a shaw customer as well, where you from bro?) have failed to upgrade their infastructure and now they realize their outdated old stuff can't handle the load. So instead of using their boatloads of cash to invest in a better network, they just charge us more so we use it less.

Mix in the fact that our internet service per dollar we paid even before UBB was sub-par compared to the rest of the world and I have little sympathy.

Lastly, if the strain is truly as bad as Bell claims (which i SERIOUSLY doubt) then i have no problem with UBB - provided it does what they say it does - that is, COVER THEIR COSTS. I am happy to pay 1-3 cents more per gigabyte if its guaranteeing me better service in the future. Because it only costs them 1-3 cents per gigabyte. 5$ per gigabyte is FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT PROFIT. That's not covering costs, that's a greedy cash grab.

And let's get serious, they aren't going to use this money to provide better service, this is the Big 3 we're talking about. They'll take your money and laugh all the way to the bank.

They're losing money on their TV divisions and instead of adapting (We're looking at all your flaws Bell ExpressVu/Shaw Video on Demand) and fixing their netflix-esque service or coming up with something new, they are attempting to FORCE people to do things the old way.

Spoiler alert Big 3 - When you cant adapt to new trends, you are a failed company. Using dirty tricks like this to maintain the status quo is despicable.

The web is a major tool for the emerging 21st century economy. Canada needs to be getting on the net in force to maintain our high standing in the economic ranks of the developed world, and this stands in the way of the well being of our nations future.

Would Facebook have been invented if Zuckerberg had been forced to pay 2-5$ for every gigabyte hes used over 25 per month? Somehow I doubt it.

This cramps innovation, and the mandate of the CRTC is NOT to meet industry half way, it is to protect the Canadian people. Its corruption and corporate colonization by the big three have caused it to fail in aforementioned mandate

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Offline Flipside

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
This was suggested for a short while in the UK a couple of years ago until it was pointed out that they would lose more money than they would make, because it was estimated that around 85% of private customers would cancel their Internet accounts. With almost no customers online, the UK busineses would soon follow suit.

Also, it would be one hell of a con for people who already have Steam accounts etc, since the only way they could get games they have already paid for would be to pay yet more, I'm pretty certain there'd be some legal problems with that.

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Well it looks like UBB has been killed with all three main political parties against it and the CRTC told to either go and reevaluate or parliament would do it for them.

I studied telecommunications in Canada and the history of the fights between consumers and providers (and Bell since they have always been there). This is a very interesting addition to that history of back and forth :)
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Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
This is a very good summary however there are two things that were left out.
There has been an immense amount of misinformation about this ruling, so I'll attempt to set the record straight (since I've been following it pretty closely).

- Canada has three large telecom providers that span multiple provinces:  Telus, Bell, and Rogers.  Internet service has a few other large players (Shaw Communications) and many small players.  For the most part, network infrastructure is purchased, maintained, and operated by the "Big 3" and Shaw (which operates only in Western provinces, and who is my ISP).
Some interesting trivia, Bell is owned by BellGlobeMedia who among other things owns CTV (one of two national broadcast television networks, the other being the CBC, a crown corporation) and other cable TV stations.  Rogers is owned by/owns among other things several cable TV stations.

Telus is just the profitable mass left of AGT (Alberta Government Telephone) and BCTel.  Telus sells TV over IP services called TelusTV but otherwise they are strictly a telecom company, celluar, landline, internet, and TV which is resold content from Bell, Rogers, CBC and others. I have been a Telus customer for years, and they have always had bandwidth caps (which I have gone over many times without them even contacting me to say that I have gone over, nor have they charged their ridiculous $2 something per GB overage charge) but they have never really enforced the caps. They use them more as a legal loophole to get rid of problem customers (ie. like connection flat out all the time types) and/or to say, 'Yes we have caps, just like every one else'. This is why Telus doesn't get mentioned much in this whole thing, though they apparently were party to the petitioning of the CRTC (though like all corporations I am sure they saw the dollars signs).

- The telecom industry is regulated by an arms-length agency called the Canadian Radio-Telecommunications Commission (CRTC).  The CRTC is most famous for enforcing the infamous "Canadian-content" rules that ensure, in addition to quality Canadian and international programming, we get an additional percentage of programming that is mandated by law to be of Canadian origin.  If you think that's a ridiculous rule, imagine how the vast majority of people here feel.
Yes, the results of that ruling have been interesting.  Though you can thank that ruling for BSG (filmed primarily in Vancouver, with the low Canadian dollar and subsidies from the Feds).

So, despite being a huge proponent of net neutrality and low-cost Internet for everyone, I actually kind of agree with the CRTC's original decision - network's should have the ability to charge their competitors based on their usage.  Bandwidth is a finite resource on a network.  That is not to say that I think the ISP market in Canada is healthy - rather, I think some introduction of alternative forms of competition is necessary to prevent us becoming even more of a telecom backwater.
I agree, however there are two problems:

  First, is how Bell and especially Rogers have been behaving with regards to these bandwidth caps.  Rogers, 1 week before Netflix opened for business in Canada, Rogers dropped their already low caps to be even more ridiculously low, with an obscene overage charge.  However, Rogers conveniently doesn't count bandwidth to their own media streaming site (which is what Netflix exclusively offers in Canada). After this decision by the CRTC, Bell announced that their low caps would not apply to streaming from their media sites either, just like Rogers.

  Second, is supposedly the monthly charge that we pay every month pays for the infrastructure (just like the service or connections fees for water, sewer, electricity, natural gas, telephone).  So if the infrastructure is already paid for (which was primarily paid for by government grants to start with) why does it cost $s per GB to transit this data.

To be clear, I have no problem with paying for the bandwidth that I use, but what Bell, Rogers, and possibly Telus are trying to pull is nothing more than a money grab.  Yes, the artificial flat 'rental' of the network is probably not good, though on the other hand, none of the Canadian ISPs are anywhere close to not making money.  Except for maybe Shaw, though it would probably help if they stopped buying companies.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Like I said before, I don't for a second think the Big 3 are hurting even slightly and deserve more money; BUT, the artificial competition that's been created [primarily in Ontario] isn't healthy either.

What the CRTC *should* have done is set a country-wide minimum bandwidth cap that ISPs must abide by (50 GB would be a good start; 100 would be better) which is mandated to increase by a percentage every year based on the total number of users, and then set a maximum bandwidth usage charge at a more reasonable cost.  Make those limits binding, but permit providers to work within them.

Like you, Mneur, Shaw has never pestered me about bandwidth charges (though they probably could have in the past).  BCE and Rogers, on the other hand, have a history of shady, gouging business practices.  While I don't think they should be rewarded for that by the CRTC, I see their point about the ISPs they essentially are being forced to subsidize.

It's like the mobile industry - until you introduce new players, there's no incentive for the Big 3 not to gouge the crap out of us.  The government intervening to allow Wind Mobile and Mobilicity into the game was huge.

Also, since Drogoth asked, I live in the Edmonton area.
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
And I my friend, hail from the Calgary Area.

And yeah that's what I have the issue with to be quite frank, it's the price gauging. The artificial competition isn't exactly fair, but at the same time, Bell acts preemptively to shut down any competition that isn't explicitly protected by the law, which is why the artificial competition was created and proteced.

They worked their asses off to try and stop Wind from starting up, and almost won. I hate all our telecom giants/ISP's. All of them. I haven't met a single person who is happy with their cellphone/internet provider. Not a single one, the options in my town are pretty scarce though. Things will change when I move to the city but yeah. I've heard good things about Wind, but yeah. The big three are almost universally despised. Something has to be done about it.
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
On another note, the Stop The Meter petition is the largest political online petition in history and we've changed the minds of the gov. However the CRTC is still being stubborn.

Recent poll found a whopping 74% of Canadians oppose UBB.

http://www.visioncritical.com/public-opinion/5749/canadians-flatly-reject-usage-based-billing-for-internet-access/


New Target is 1 million sigs, I implore all Canadians to sign the petition, lets get it above 1 million.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Quote
In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,024 Canadian adults, three-in-four respondents (76%) disagree with the recent decision from the Canada Radio-television Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), which recently ruled that Internet service providers should adopt “usage-based billing”.

(...)

The level of “strong disagreement” with the proposed course of action is above the 50 per cent mark in every region of the country (from a high of 74% in Ontario to a low of 52% in Quebec), across both genders (69% for men, 59% for women), and all three main age groups (62% for respondents aged 18 to 34, 68% for those aged 25 to 54, and 59% for those over the age of 55).

How can 76% of the respondents disagree if no individual group has 76% or above disagreement rates?
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Quote
In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,024 Canadian adults, three-in-four respondents (76%) disagree with the recent decision from the Canada Radio-television Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), which recently ruled that Internet service providers should adopt “usage-based billing”.

(...)

The level of “strong disagreement” with the proposed course of action is above the 50 per cent mark in every region of the country (from a high of 74% in Ontario to a low of 52% in Quebec), across both genders (69% for men, 59% for women), and all three main age groups (62% for respondents aged 18 to 34, 68% for those aged 25 to 54, and 59% for those over the age of 55).

How can 76% of the respondents disagree if no individual group has 76% or above disagreement rates?

Relative population densities?

 

Offline Drogoth

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Re: "Usage-based billing" hits Canada
Quote
In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,024 Canadian adults, three-in-four respondents (76%) disagree with the recent decision from the Canada Radio-television Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), which recently ruled that Internet service providers should adopt “usage-based billing”.

(...)

The level of “strong disagreement” with the proposed course of action is above the 50 per cent mark in every region of the country (from a high of 74% in Ontario to a low of 52% in Quebec), across both genders (69% for men, 59% for women), and all three main age groups (62% for respondents aged 18 to 34, 68% for those aged 25 to 54, and 59% for those over the age of 55).

How can 76% of the respondents disagree if no individual group has 76% or above disagreement rates?

Look at the chart. Strong disagreement % + Moderate disagreement % = 76
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