[Hades]

For the better? FS1 had a much better plot than the nonsensical plot FS2 offered us. Originality doesn't automatically become quality.

[General Battuta]

FS1 was basically a tech demo. It had neither originality nor quality, and what fondness people have for it is generally born of nostalgia. FS2 had both, and was so cleverly constructed that it was both meaningful in and of itself and meaningful as a subversion and deconstruction of the banal FS1.

[Hades]

Alright, let's see:
The NTF, which had been formed only a few months before FS2 began, only had Orion class destroyers, and out of the numerous Orion-class destroyers, the only fighters and bombers were Loki, Hercules, Medusa, or Zeus class? They had roughly about the same amount of forces as the GTVA Terrans did, who also had the Vasudans, who, since they faired much better during the reconstruction, would probably have a significant force. Yet the GTVA only starts to win after the Colossus, despite the much larger force they had to combat the NTF. The NTF was also more like a full blown military than it was a rebellion formed by one person, who managed to turn half the Terran fleet to his side based mainly on racism, which is odd considering racism would have likely been a lot smaller than portrayed since the only reason they are there is because of the alliance with the Vasudans.

Another thing, every faction throws around ships, and even destroyers, like they're absolutely nothing. The Ravana just sits there while Alpha wing of bombers and the Sobek attack it, no matter how much time goes by. Command sends a Hecate to try and stall the Sathanas, which did absolutely nothing. The Colossus even engages the Sathanas from the front instead of trying to flank it.

The Trinity somehow manages to pass through several GTVA controlled systems, presumably by itself, finds the Knossos, turns it on, and moves inside.

Maybe not all of the story is bad, ad I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but the execution is sorely lacking.

The Psamtik jumps in 9000 meters away from the Knossos due to some type of subspace interference, yet the player's wing can jump much, much closer to it?

[General Battuta]

Even assuming there's anything worth being worried about in that post (I don't see anything that doesn't feel like a contrived objection), these are the kinds of things Star Wars fans have fights over; they're not really important to the actual plot or storytelling.

Which brings me back to the delicious irony:

i hate fanboys

[Goober5000]

subversion and deconstruction

um, wut?

[General Battuta]

subversion and deconstruction

um, wut?

you heard me big mama

FreeSpace 1 is Independence Day. FreeSpace 2 follows FreeSpace 1 almost perfectly for a good two-thirds of its narrative before turning it around and showing that FreeSpace 1 is a fable we tell ourselves, as a species, to make ourselves feel safe at night.

[Hades]

Which brings me back to the delicious irony:

i hate fanboys

I'm not a fanboy, I realize that there's a good deal of bad parts in the writing in FS1, too. I even played FS2 a good deal of time before I touched FreeSpace 1, and that personal attack was pretty unnecessary.

[General Battuta]

Which brings me back to the delicious irony:

i hate fanboys

I'm not a fanboy, I realize that there's a good deal of bad parts in the writing in FS1, too. I even played FS2 a good deal of time before I touched FreeSpace 1, and that personal attack was pretty unnecessary.

Where's the personal attack, I can't see one, could someone help me I've gone blind?

[Drogoth]

Even assuming there's anything worth being worried about in that post (I don't see anything that doesn't feel like a contrived objection), these are the kinds of things Star Wars fans have fights over; they're not really important to the actual plot or storytelling.

Which brings me back to the delicious irony:

i hate fanboys

Battuta, I think Hades is right. Freespace 2 had an epic plot, impressive game play, and will always hold a special place in my heart as one of the greatest games of all time but there were some major plot holes that jarred me while playing, and Hades has done an excellent job pointing them out.

Not to say that Freespace 1 didn't have many of the same problems. Most glaringly, "Why didn't the Lucifer just cruise through every jump node it could find, and decimate the PVN and GTA" I mean come on, the thought must have hit us all when we finished the game. What was the point of the Eva? Hell, the Taranis? Or the fighters that attacked the Plato. The Lucifer was invincible as far as we knew at the time and could have eaten humanity for breakfast and washed us down with Vasudan pie.

Playing Judas mission, what kind of military organization sees one of its own fighters jump in unannounced and doesn't challenge it with an ID check immediately?

etc. etc.

They share similar plot flaws;. Things happening for inexplicable reasons some of which don't make sense i.e. The scope and armament of the NTF, the stupid decisions around how to attack a sathanas etc.

There is no upper hand by either game based on plot continuity, which is where I think I differ from Hades, allthough i may have misunderstood, up to him to let me know.

So let's judge on the actual events of the story and general atmosphere of the game. Frankly, that comes down to opinion so I think trying to prove which game is better is a waste of time, they are both masterpieces.

But if we're going to get into opinions I personally feel that Freespace The Great War was superior to Freespace 2. It drops the pilot into a situation that is unknown, frightening, and we encounter enemies that are vastly superior to our own capabilities. Every ship we lose is a blow, and every mission we win doesn't stop the Juggernaut's march toward our destruction. The enemy has an indestructible ship so aptly dubbed "Lucifer" and colonies are being crushed one by one. In our hour of victory in our capture of the Taranis, the Shivans arrive and casually wipe out one of our most impressive military installations. Our allies lose their homeworld and it is only through the sacrifice of our own homeworld that we can defeat the shivans.

The Lucifer frightened me when I played it. Not in a kind of "oh my god thats scary looking someone hold me" sort of way, but in a resigned "we lose" sort of way. FS1 was dripping with atmosphere.

When I played FS2, i loved it, it was great, and it had atmosphere but not as strong. Terran command casually threw around ships like paperweights and the Shivan's were just. Enemies. They weren't that impressive compared to us, and the Sathanas wasn't something indescribably powerful that struck the fear of god into me, it was just damn big. We proved that when we blew it up. I never had the same fear of the Sathanas as I did the Lucifer. Not by a long a shot. It built very nicely at the end, and I was starting to get into it. The sathanas fleet hitting Capella, rolling over terran resistance like a tidal wave. That was impressive. That was stellar. They blew up a damn sun, that is bad ass. That was atmosphere. And then it just.. ends. Everything up to the destruction of the Psamtik just didn't do it for me. Not like it did in FS1

As for calling someone a hater because they disagree with you, that seems kind of low.

I took some time typing this out, so, sorry if ive missed some responses.

[NGTM-1R]

FS1 was basically a tech demo. It had neither originality nor quality, and what fondness people have for it is generally born of nostalgia. FS2 had both, and was so cleverly constructed that it was both meaningful in and of itself and meaningful as a subversion and deconstruction of the banal FS1.

Translation: Battuta has no appreciation for stories that are not new and different.

Even though I don't generally rank them seperately, I'd like to hear those charges substantiated rather than just thrown about. Indeed, given the basic similarity of story between FS1 and FS2, (fighting other guys, Shivans come in, ohgodShivans, more fighting other guys, more ohgodShivans, yay pyhrric victory) I'm not sure how you can even pretend FS2 is original in the slightest.

[Hades]

Where's the personal attack, I can't see one, could someone help me I've gone blind?

Really? You mean that bringing up that 'i hate fanboys' from IRC two days ago, into a discussion where it isn't even relevant, to say that I am one myself when I hate the trait isn't a personal attack? Huh.

It's really only ironic when you try to use it to call someone else one, since I admit that there are faults in FS1 while you seemingly pretend that FS2 is original and has no flaws.

[Mongoose]

The one thing I never hear explained from people who offer high praise for FS1's "atmosphere" as opposed to FS2's is how that holds true given the amount of almost completely stand-alone missions in the original game.  There are whole stretches of FS1 (the several missions before "Enter the Dragon" come to mind) where what you're doing has very little relevance to any sort of overarching plot.  I mean, the individual missions themselves were fun, but you kind of started to wonder why you were chasing down a random convoy or protecting a random ship.  The periods from "Enter the Dragon" to "Exodus" and "Reaching the Zenith" to the end were the only portions of the game where you truly felt like part of something bigger.  I thought FS2 did a much better job of keeping you active in the overall plot; the squadron-transfer mechanic helped a great deal in that regard.

As I've said before in similar threads, I played FS1 multiple times over before I finally managed to get my hands on FS2, yet I consider the sequel to be the clear winner, both gameplay-wise and narratively.

(Also, where the hell was this split from? )

[bigchunk1]

I mean it's like what's better, Cheesecake or Crème brûlée? Fs1 and Fs2 are both great games, but personally I think Fs1 is my favorite of the two.
First, let's just be clear we are talking campaigns here, and not even speaking to the Fs2 code and modability that gave rise to many of the toys we have here on HLP. If that's the case Fs2 wins hands down. It has many more features and Fredgasms such has beam turrets, tag weaponry, nebula environments, thunder, new ships etc.
So just speaking to freespace1 as a campaign, I think it was an all around better experience for me than freespace2. My reasons are by category.
 
Music:
This is a very subjective point, but I think Freespace1 had better, more inspired music than freespace2. It captured a mood which very much fit the series. Paticular favorites are m2bttl and m7nml, those also happened to play during some of my favorite parts of the game.

Gameplay:
I don't believe I can completely explain why, but I like how dog fighting works in freespace1 better than freespace2. Maybe it's the slower average ship speed, maybe it's the nature of the weapons (speed color etc.), or maybe it's how satisfying the hull penetration sound effect is. Maybe someone can help me out on this but whatever the reason, it's more satisfying to kill fighters in Fs1 than Fs2.
Also I like how warships play a diminished role in combat and it's more about fighters. This was definitely done on purpose to allow the player's role as a pilot to be prominent. Just like mech warrior is all about mechs and Tank commander is all about tanks.  You can even take out a destroyer with a fighter if you are tenacious/patient enough. This might be seen as the game being more of arcade like and less realistic, but in terms of player involvement, I have to say me likey.
This is more of a picky thing, but I like unshielded combat from time to time. Fs1 had both shielded and unshielded combat, while freespace2 pretty much stuck to its shields.
 
Story:
It's hard to say for me really, because I see Freespace 1 and Freespace2 being two chapters of the same story. Freespace1 was more simplistic, but enjoyable none the less. I remember the first time I played it some ten years back. Seeing the Shivans for the very first time petrified and amazed by the mystery of them. They were simply unknown, their existence their motives, everything about them an unresolved puzzle but one aspect. They are a danger and they kill on sight.
I remember listening to the 'ancients' monologues. Speaking about the history of the ancients and their lack of interest in militarily frail species. Our civilization had no desire to learn from them, no desire to coexist with them. Only to exterminate them and relieve posterity the burden of sharing the universe with them.
All this then the Shivans come and our perceptions have been flipped. While we typically care little to understand and instead put our efforts to destruction. Here is a race of whom we do not understand and cares for nothing but to destroy us.
The Terrans and Vasudans, they did something the ancients did not. They learned, and adapted. They changed their formulas and focused their energy towards their own survival.
The Shivans were introduced expertly. Their 'character' is defined by questions more than answers. Art that makes the reader think is by my experience good art.   
I guess it can be seen as simple, but it can be interpreted to be something quite philosophically deep. Stripping away complexity to get to something more raw. An unknown monster, while cliché can be used as a stepping stone to some other theme. I think Fs1 played these fears nicely. I had the feeling like all was lost right until the very end, which ended in a very tense way.
Note to GB: Independence day? I liked independence day. Maybe that's why Robert Loggia is in Fs2.

Setting:
The Terran-Vasudan war was a microcosm which lead to the enlargement of the setting to involve the Shivans, and later the Hammer of Light along with all their systems. This all took place while the player was being introduced to new technology and ships. The dynamically expanding setting was nice for me as a player to explore the game. Freespace2 does this to some extent as well, but I did not quite get that same sense.

 Artwork:
The SF Scorpion scared me a bit as a kid.
 
Overall:
The added features and depth of Freespace2 definitely allows better replayability than Freespace1, but in terms of the single player experience, that initial play through. I have to say Freespace1 did it for me.
Again may I point out that I enjoy both Cheesecake and Crème brûlée.   

Note to mongoose: you might be right, I think I was caught up in the setting too much to notice that.

[General Battuta]

Even assuming there's anything worth being worried about in that post (I don't see anything that doesn't feel like a contrived objection), these are the kinds of things Star Wars fans have fights over; they're not really important to the actual plot or storytelling.

Which brings me back to the delicious irony:

i hate fanboys

Battuta, I think Hades is right. Freespace 2 had an epic plot, impressive game play, and will always hold a special place in my heart as one of the greatest games of all time but there were some major plot holes that jarred me while playing, and Hades has done an excellent job pointing them out.

I disagree! The storytelling in FS1 is so profoundly bad, so paper-thin that it would not be acceptable even at a D&D session.

FreeSpace 1 is useful only as biomass for FreeSpace 2 to incubate in, so that it might burst forth, all chestburster-like, in an eruption of glory.

I've come to accept that there will be people who like FS1. There are people who think Twilight is a profound piece of literature, and will argue at great length for it. So it goes.

Where's the personal attack, I can't see one, could someone help me I've gone blind?

Really? You mean that bringing up that 'i hate fanboys' from IRC two days ago, into a discussion where it isn't even relevant, to say that I am one myself when I hate the trait isn't a personal attack? Huh.

It's really only ironic when you try to use it to call someone else one, since I admit that there are faults in FS1 while you seemingly pretend that FS2 is original and has no flaws.

I just thought it was funny. ITT fanboys getting upset about their game c/d? confirmed by Hades talking like High Max! The second half of your sentence doesn't seem to be based on anything whatsoever so I will assume you shat it out without thinking.

FreeSpace as a whole is pretty mediocre when it comes to SF narrative but FS2 is the only place I see anything approaching a true story with something to say and the means to actually say it.

[Lucika]

In my humble opinion, the quintessential difference between FS1 and FS2 could be shown in Command's behaviour in the last mission.

FS1: *screaming, fearful* Three minutes left! Please, you must hurry!
        *screaming* Alpha 1, you have one minute left!

FS2: *reprimanding* End this massacre now, pilots!


I prefer FS1.

[General Battuta]

In my humble opinion, the quintessential difference between FS1 and FS2 could be shown in Command's behaviour in the last mission.

FS1: *screaming, fearful* Three minutes left! Please, you must hurry!
        *screaming* Alpha 1, you have one minute left!

FS2: *reprimanding* End this massacre now, pilots!


I prefer FS1.

This is exactly why FS2 was the only element of FreeSpace canon to get anywhere near actual storytelling.

thread title successfully repaired

Double-post succesfully repaired. --Jeff Vader

[Fury]

...

I didn't want to post here, until now. Why did you have to troll again Battuta? It's time to close the topic. Editing topic title just because you disagree with it doesn't mean you can do so.

Edit: Topic title restored.

[General Battuta]

Excuse me, but this topic title was arbitrarily assigned by someone not the topic creator (as it is a split) and it is my duty to repair it into something fair and balanced

I have achieved my mission Fury

There was a time when double-posts were frowned upon at HLP. But seeing as even moderators a global mod makes them without even blinking, and since I guess moderators should represent the forums' finest, I guess I will soon stop caring. Thank you freaks peace love. --Jeff Vader

[Fury]

and it is my duty to repair it into something fair and balanced

Reversing 1 and 2 does not equal fair and balanced, only your own opinion. What a tool you are.

[General Battuta]

I think we're working off different definitions of 'fair and balanced' here mister fury

You see in America