[Kazan]

scuddie: LINUX is evil? LINUX? hahaha you're the one using windows, that monopolist's toy.. you're a farking puppet.... oh... grrrrrrr *wanders off to calm down*

[Bobboau]

so are you done with you're tests'n stuff

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Kazan
scuddie: LINUX is evil? LINUX? hahaha you're the one using windows, that monopolist's toy.. you're a farking puppet.... oh... grrrrrrr *wanders off to calm down*

He's a puppet becuase he doesn't like linux? I HATE linux. Does that make me a puppet too? Careful how you throw those words about. Parrotting (or should I say penguinning?) the linux party line is no way to show you're not a puppet. Its a good way to show your a puppet with a different guy at the strings. There's a blessing though--at least you don't insist we all call it GNU/Linux.

That said, Scuddie: A Linux port means code independence. Zero dependencies on corporate code. Why is this good? Because it means that we can put the code anywhere we please without having to pay someone for the privilege (MSVisualC++ or Visual Studio is kinda pricey unless you're warezing, and we don't warez do we?).

Of course, I won't be happy until there's a working FreeBSD port that doesn't depend on the linux-core-7.1 ports/modules. I like my OS's free AND stable.

[penguin]

Originally posted by penguin
I got fs2 to compile and link under Linux!!  It segfaults almost immediately, but this is a big step... no more unresolved symbols...

yeesh, replying to myself, how sad.. but I though I'd post the progress on the Linux port project. for anyone who cares.  (BTW, if you don't care, read another thread )

Getting further along with the port, no more segfaults (yet)... I have a lot of debug code turned on, so I can see what's going on (as I have no UI yet )  The VP files are loading, and the tbl files are getting parsed correctly, as far as I can tell.

Thanks to Kazan (and others) for the tip to go with SDL.  I installed it and am using it successfully.  Although I haven't done any of the graphics work yet (that's next)  I am using it for keyboard input, and it seems to be working very well.

The screens and UI bitmaps are being loaded, and when the pilot screen comes up, I can type in a name and hit enter to get to the main hall.  If I hit 'R,' we go into the ready room, and the mission file gets parsed, and we see Cmdr. Loukakis's greeting!  (Thank you   for giving us a keyboard interface)

The current breaking point is now when it tries to format the cmd brief text... since there's no font support the text doesn't know where to wrap and it asserts.  I think I am going to tackle the 2D graphics next, so I can at least see the screens Then mouse support should be fairly easy, using SDL again...

---

And as for all the OT linux bashing (sorry, just I gotta respond), "hate" and "evil" are kinda strong words for something as banal as an operating system, for God's sake... I mean I'm not crazy about Windows (or MacOS or BeOS or CP/M or ...), but I couldn't get myself worked up enough about it to hate it...  

I seriously doubt anyone is forcing you to use Linux -- unlike me with Windows: I have to run it on one of my boxes at work so I can use Exchange and Word and a few other apps -- everything else I do in Linux, because it's easier for me, but I'm paid to be a Linux developer so it makes sense.  Linux isn't for everyone.  It's not as polished as Windows or MacOS, it's obviously missing a lot of app support, although all of this is changing, slowly (it makes a nice server though...)

Geez, you don't like, then don't run it.  It's not like there aren't alternatives.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by mikhael
I like my OS's free AND stable.

then you shouldn't be using Bezerkly Systems Distribution



pengiun have you seen KDE3?

[Inquisitor]

well, FreeBSD is actually free

I know a few ISP's that run it exclusively instead of Linux.

[vrodic]

Originally posted by penguin

yeesh, replying to myself, how sad.. but I though I'd post the progress on the Linux port project. for anyone who cares.  (BTW, if you don't care, read another thread )

Unfortunately  I've slowed down my work.

It's great to hear that you've made progress.

I hope that I'll port audio by the time you do  some more of graphics code porting.

Are you keeping the Windows code?

[penguin]

Originally posted by vrodic
Are you keeping the Windows code?

I hope so... I haven't tried back-porting it to Windows, 'cuz it's a pain w/ no MSVC at home.  I'm trying to keep my changes separate with #ifdef unix and #ifdef WIN32

Unfortunately, I am working with a separate code base than yours, since I had so many problems getting it to compile under gcc2.95 on Linux.  Hopefully this "fork" in the early stages won't be too much of a problem, and we can attempt a merge at some point...

When it's a little closer to being ready, I'll throw it up on SourceForge anyhow, they can go ahead and ban me if they don't like the license

Originally posted by Kazan
pengiun have you seen KDE3?

Yeah, a co-worker has messed around with it.  Looks nice, but I'm kinda a minimalist, so I am just running Enlightenment 0.16.3, with no Gnome or anything.  I can do what I need to, which is have about 12 ssh sessions open, Emacs, and MiniTik.  The closest I come to using any GUI type applications is grkrellm.  I do occassionally use Netscape (like now, I'm at home), but sadly, I do most of the web browsing from my Win2K box using MSIE (our "corporate standard" -- can't even access our private intranet using Netscape )

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
well, FreeBSD is actually free

I know a few ISP's that run it exclusively instead of Linux.

Linux is free also.. i've always downloaded it - you can chose to support the company by getting the packaged edition - which you're paying for the documentation, etc

[Inquisitor]

Penguin or Vrodic:

When I get back from E3, I can try to compile what you got so far with MSVC, see if we can work the bugs out.

As for Sourceforge, since you two are working on really close builds, maybe you could get vrodic to give you write access to his CVS?

Need to get sandwich moving so we can get the real CVS up...

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
well, FreeBSD is actually free

And Linux isn't? Since when?

[Inquisitor]

That was a rebuttal to Kazan's BSD  comment

Back on topic

[_argv[-1]]

When it's a little closer to being ready, I'll throw it up on SourceForge anyhow, they can go ahead and ban me if they don't like the license

Actually, if your license isn't one of the standard licenses, you have to submit it to SF staff for approval. I forget what their criteria are, but the license under which FS2 is released is quite liberal (IIRC, the only demand they make is that you not make money with it), so I doubt SF will reject it. If they do, then there's always Warpcore...

Yeah, a co-worker has messed around with it.  Looks nice, but I'm kinda a minimalist, so I am just running Enlightenment 0.16.3, with no Gnome or anything.  I can do what I need to, which is have about 12 ssh sessions open, Emacs, and MiniTik.

Embellishment^WEnlightenment and Emacs are your idea of 'minimalist'? I remember running Linux on a 486... in those days, Emacs was considered a memory-hogging monstrosity, and Enlightenment probably had a measurable framerate (but I wasn't masochistic enough to find out).

Even today, Enlightenment is much slower than GNOME, unless Rasterman actually got a clue at some point since I last used E, and increased its speed...

The closest I come to using any GUI type applications is grkrellm.  I do occassionally use Netscape (like now, I'm at home), but sadly, I do most of the web browsing from my Win2K box using MSIE (our "corporate standard" -- can't even access our private intranet using Netscape )

Really? What happens when you try?

[penguin]

Originally posted by _argv[-1]


Actually, if your license isn't one of the standard licenses, you have to submit it to SF staff for approval. I forget what their criteria are, but the license under which FS2 is released is quite liberal (IIRC, the only demand they make is that you not make money with it), so I doubt SF will reject it. If they do, then there's always Warpcore...

I have a sourceforge project already (http://jumpnode.sourceforge.net), so I can put whatever I want up there, I went through the approval process 6 months ago, but this was obviously before the :V: code was released.  What I'm saying is I can put it up there and see if it causes problems...SF doesn't check every new commit, so for it to cause problems, somebody would probably have to complain about it anyhow.

"It's easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission"

Embellishment^WEnlightenment and Emacs are your idea of 'minimalist'? I remember running Linux on a 486... in those days, Emacs was considered a memory-hogging monstrosity, and Enlightenment probably had a measurable framerate (but I wasn't masochistic enough to find out).

Heh, touche... yeah, Emacs is pretty much the antithesis of minimalism.  I am inconsistent  E is pretty fast when you turn off the Gnome stuff.  It works well for me, at least.

Really? What happens when you try?

The stupid ActiveX menu applets don't work.  They might be Java applets, actually, but the bastardized MS version that refuses to work correctly on non-MSIE platforms (or it could be that Netscape's JVM sux, that wound't surprise me either)  Anyhow, I'm SOL when I try to use Netscape, so I've stopped trying to fight it.

[Inquisitor]

penguin, can you wait a week before doing that? I haven't been able to prod anyone into getting the formal ball rolling for the last few days, I'd like to take warpcore up on their offer, just don;t want to piss anyone off by claiming "respoinsibility."

I think Sourceforge is unneccesary, if nothing else, I'll erect a CVS at my ISP in Ohio, but I'd like to take advantage of Warpcore's offer and expertise

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by penguin
The stupid ActiveX menu applets don't work.  They might be Java applets, actually, but the bastardized MS version that refuses to work correctly on non-MSIE platforms (or it could be that Netscape's JVM sux, that wound't surprise me either)  Anyhow, I'm SOL when I try to use Netscape, so I've stopped trying to fight it.

MSIE's JVM sucks too, albeit slightly less. To get one that doesn't suck (and works on both MSIE and Netscape), go download the JRE from Sun here. The JRE package will install, among other things, the Java Plugin for MSIE and Netscape, which will (at least in theory) override the JVM that comes with the respective browser.


Choose the JRE, and not the SDK, unless you intend to write Java code (applets or otherwise), in which case you want the SDK. (The SDK includes everything in the JRE, but is a bigger download.)

[Kazan]

netscape comes with the Sun JRE

[Zeronet]

FS2 runs in XP which is super cool and FS1 does too.

[penguin]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
penguin, can you wait a week before doing that? I haven't been able to prod anyone into getting the formal ball rolling for the last few days, I'd like to take warpcore up on their offer, just don;t want to piss anyone off by claiming "respoinsibility."

I think Sourceforge is unneccesary, if nothing else, I'll erect a CVS at my ISP in Ohio, but I'd like to take advantage of Warpcore's offer and expertise

NP, I move pretty slowly anyhow, I've been talking about this for 2 weeks now  Plus, it is definitely "not ready for prime time," I want to at least be able to see the 2D UI before I embarass myself by releasing it to everyone else's eyeballs.

I doubt anyone'll be pissed off by the "responsibility" claim, but I do see your point.

My big concern is that we don't end up forking too much, and losing changes that are being made and suggested.  We already have at least three branches that I know of -- mine, vrodic's, and everyone else's  Merging it all back into something coherent may end up being a real ***** if we wait too long...

Dunno what kind of services Warpcore offers besides CVS, but SF does have a lot of neat other stuff -- bug trackers, mailing lists, forums (OK, we don't need that ), etc., so I think it should remain under consideration.

[penguin]

Originally posted by _argv[-1]


MSIE's JVM sucks too, albeit slightly less. To get one that doesn't suck (and works on both MSIE and Netscape), go download the JRE from Sun here. The JRE package will install, among other things, the Java Plugin for MSIE and Netscape, which will (at least in theory) override the JVM that comes with the respective browser.


Choose the JRE, and not the SDK, unless you intend to write Java code (applets or otherwise), in which case you want the SDK. (The SDK includes everything in the JRE, but is a bigger download.)

Hmm.  I may already have it then, about 25% of the stuff I do at work is Java.  Eh, I will probably still end up using MSIE at work, some battles aren't worth fighting.