[Bobboau]

Where does the information magically come from?

that video of him being lynched my an angry mob?

[Mongoose]

The bullet hole in his forehead is pretty convincing too.

[Grizzly]

I get accidental headshots in shooters all the time .

[jr2]

He's a botter!  Ban him!!! 

[Mars]

So rebels execute the former dictator, shortly before falling prey to another dictator.

Typical.

However, we don't yet know for sure exactly who did what.

[Kosh]

And now Libya is a nation of sharia


Is anyone seriously surprised by this?

"Any law that violates sharia is null and void legally," he said, citing as an example the law on marriage passed during the slain dictator's 42-year tenure that imposed restrictions on polygamy, which is permitted in Islam.

"The law of divorce and marriage... This law is contrary to sharia and it is stopped," Abdel Jalil said.

Anytime you give any religion a free hand it will inevitably run amok. Welcome back to the dark ages.

[Scotty]

Stop being so alarmist.

Adelrahman al-Shatr, one of the founders of the centre-right Party of National Solidarity, launched just last week, said it was premature for the NTC leader to speak about the policies of the new state.

"It is a subject that should be discussed with the different political groups and with the Libyan people," he said.

"These declarations create feelings of pain and bitterness among women who sacrificed so many martyrs," in the eight-month battle against Kadhafi loyalists, he added

This is anything but concrete. 

[Herra Tohtori]

Well, the fact remains that Islam needs to go through a reformation, followed by loss of influence on any secular matters at all. That is the natural path of progress for all religions, as it should be.

Reformation is needed to get rid of Islam's pathological need to control the lives of its members on secular matters. This is something that Christianity went through in the 16th century during Protestant reformations, which fragmented the Catholic church and eventually led to current situation where Christian churches really don't have much, if at all, relevance on secular matters. The only exception would be the right to perform weddings as a state-officiated institution; other than that, if you wish, you can entirely ignore the churches.

In an islamic country, if you're born a muslim, you're sort of stuck that way as long as Islamic law remains the supreme law of the land. This is something that needs to change if these countries are ever going to experience peaceful existence without multiple human rights violations.

And no, sharia doesn't gain GET OUT OF JAIL card from critique just because it's part of islamic culture. Wrong* things are wrong regardless of their supposed origin.



TL;DR - Like all religions, Islam will be a problem as long as it's allowed to dictate day-to-day life and legislation.





*Wrong is of course a definition, subject to ethics and morality used. To make sure that the definition of wrong used is as fair and balanced as possible, I propose we use my definitions which are obviously the best ones.

[General Battuta]

Reformation is needed to get rid of Islam's pathological need to control the lives of its members on secular matters. This is something that Christianity went through in the 16th century during Protestant reformations, which fragmented the Catholic church and eventually led to current situation where Christian churches really don't have much, if at all, relevance on secular matters

You should maybe spend some time in the United States of Under God

[Herra Tohtori]

I'm not speaking of third world colonies I'm speaking of Europe

[redsniper]

I'm not speaking of third world colonies I'm speaking of Europe

Ouch. I mean it's warranted, but still, ouch.

[Kosh]

Stop being so alarmist.

Adelrahman al-Shatr, one of the founders of the centre-right Party of National Solidarity, launched just last week, said it was premature for the NTC leader to speak about the policies of the new state.

"It is a subject that should be discussed with the different political groups and with the Libyan people," he said.

"These declarations create feelings of pain and bitterness among women who sacrificed so many martyrs," in the eight-month battle against Kadhafi loyalists, he added

This is anything but concrete. 

There's decades of precedence in other Islamic countries to back this up, and even to a limited extent in the UK where there is no clear seperation of church and state. The fact is until fundemental reforms such as what Herra mentioned occurs this will almost always happen. Democracy doesn't gaurentee secularism, it is what the people want it to be so it can either be there to serve the people or it can be a dysfunctional and corrupt mess like so much of the world.

And no, sharia doesn't gain GET OUT OF JAIL card from critique just because it's part of islamic culture. Wrong* things are wrong regardless of their supposed origin.

As it should be, no double standards.

[MP-Ryan]

I'm not speaking of third world colonies I'm speaking of Europe

You, sir, are the reason my colleagues are looking at me and wonder why I'm laughing my ass off at my desk on a Monday afternoon   Well done, indeed.

[JCDNWarrior]

NATO could've known that Sharia law and actual extremist islamists would take control, in my opinion the NTC felt that way from the start. We'll return in a few years for a comprehensive comparison between Libya under Gadaffi and Libya under Sharia Law I suppose. Wonder if there'll be a noticeable difference. Though, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

A question for everyone though: Would you describe the events as a popular revolution or regime change (Or perhaps both?).

[Herra Tohtori]

I'm seeing certain parallels between the Iranian revolution, and these latest upheavals in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya.

The main difference here is who the Western powers have supported. In Iran's case, the West (and by that I mean the US) was behind the Shah and subsequently relations to the Islamic state of Iran that followed have been slightly abysmal.

Now, depending on how these countries start treating their citizens, it might cause interesting situations where they are compared to the human rights situation in Iran, and then we'll be asking questions - who put these people to power, who to blame that they are now oppressing their people, and what the hell should be done about it.

[Kosh]

Now, depending on how these countries start treating their citizens, it might cause interesting situations where they are compared to the human rights situation in Iran, and then we'll be asking questions - who put these people to power, who to blame that they are now oppressing their people, and what the hell should be done about it.

For one thing being a human rights abuser has never disqualified a country from being a friend of America. Just look at Saudi Arabia, literally a dark age era kingdom, a horrific human rights abuser, and even a sponsor of terrorism and teach their people to hate america, yet we treat them as friends.

What sets the Iranian Revolution apart from this is that it was explicitly anti-western and anti-soviet from the beginning. No reconcilliation or friendship was possible because they did not want it.

[Beskargam]

bump.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/27/world/africa/libya-nato-icc/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
i dont understand the point. that and all the rumors/questions around gadhafi's death. Nato didn't pull the trigger on him. and they were complying with UN resolutions. how can they have a case? do they? also with the death of gadhafi, . . . ..hes dead. mostly likely the revolutionaries killed him (theory). would i be correct in saying that libya is a warzone? and in wars i guess its not all roses and sweet scents? **** happens? and while unfortunate that he cant stand trial, is the fuss raised by his being alive then killed really worth it? he did oppress his people and he commit atrocities on them. cant say I blame any of the libyans who might have killed him. in a just world he would be alive to stand trial. but thats not reality. but it just seems kind of naive to me the way Washington, the UN, and Gadhafi's family are reacting to this? that they expected the war to conclude all peacefully and nicely now that "gadhafi is gone and the war is over".
thoughts?

[Flipside]

They're just trying to get attention and sympathy so they can get even with the 'hated west'.

It's an interesting habit that, much as we see the spectre of 'Terrorism' undermining our legal systems and our rights here, it's much the same with 'The West' in the Middle East. It's handy to have an invisible, untouchable monster to blame everything on, instead of the facing the possibility that the head of the family was a hated butcher who was killed by his own people.

[Mongoose]

Reality really is more absurd than fantasy.

[Beskargam]

Um. might be a bit behind. but how is terrorism undermining our freedoms and legal rights? i thought we did that to ourselves with the patriot act and such things. also yes to the whole untouchable monster thing. I've been surprised to hear how ignorant some people are about who/what the "enemy" is. some of those people were my own family. kinda shocking. additionally I saw a cnn documentary video of pakistans "education system" (its a stretch to call it that) in my central asia class. and the kids in the public school system are taught that the USA, Britain, and India are essentially the boogeyman and that the US, GB, and India are out to get them, take their land and  women, and  generally to hurt good devout muslims. Also shocking.

EDIT:

Reality really is more absurd than fantasy.

     will not dispute