Author Topic: Glide to OpenGL or Freespace? (Read 5958 times)

BaronsWingman · **on:** February 24, 2011, 10:40:27 am

Having roamed through the forums, I feel that there is a brain drome's smartbomb headed my way before I even get this posted......

I was referenced this way in GameDev two years ago when I asked about porting 1998 best selling WWI flight sim from Glide to OpenGL. It was said that a team involved in FreeSpace had done that. Am I in the right universe for asking if that is the case, and if so, who is a guru with that experience? I am not a programmer, but I have a C++ guy reorganizing the old code, which he says is actually of high quality despite its being disorganized. A million unit seller died upon arrival because of several unfixed glitches, then the code was lost until recently unearthed after much effort, it having been left on an old computer that could have gone to junk, but sat in the garage. We want to take it forward, we have the rights to sell it and apply the sales income to programming and graphics. We are in a hurry to get to the first new upgraded exe, then go forward step by step from there.

If I am posting in the wrong area, I apologize.

BaronsWingman

General Battuta · **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2011, 10:43:28 am

I believe that did indeed occur. If you've got well-organized code you're in way better shape than FreeSpace. I don't know exactly who did the port, though - hopefully a coder will post.

If you don't mind I will probably move this to the Source Code Project forum.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:07:03 am

Salute! General

Anyplace where they don't throw rocks at me for being there is great with me.

BaronsWingman

chief1983 · **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:42:07 am

Ah, you must be the fellow who just emailed me! We may as well keep conversation here, it'll get seen by more relevant eyes. Since it does seem you want to port to OpenGL, to my knowledge, it's not as bad as you might think. The difference here is that FSO was moved from D3D to OpenGL. Glide to OpenGL, to my knowledge, might be easier, although you may lose some of the nicer features of Glide during the initial conversion, as Glide was originally an enhanced subset of OpenGL. But OpenGL has moved forward and should be able to move past the capabilities of the Glide engine, even into the realm of shader support eventually. Taylor has been the one who has done the bulk of the graphics work on FSO. He may be open to working on a project with the prospect of getting reimbursed for his contributions through monetary compensation, I can't say. There are a couple other OpenGL coders around here. One, Hery, has stepped back from FSO but you might see about contacting him as well. The other coders I know of with graphics experience are still active here and would have to comment themselves on whether they want to/have time to help.

Will this source code become available to the public? I'd love to take a look at it.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:56:05 am

Hi Chief

Fancy meeting you here <G>.

No, the code will not be released. While there is a high end WWI sim out there, there is by the estimation of many a place for a low cost, upgraded sim that is geared towards a large market of people who want a lot of realism in FM/DMs and eye candy, but is easier to fly...not arcade, just easier and works good on "average" PCs.

Great post, Chief. Thanks

BaronsWingman

karajorma · **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:10:30 pm

If I remember correctly we didn't actually change Glide to OpenGL. Instead we ignored Glide, upgraded D3D5 to D3D8 and then moved from that to OpenGL.

I could be wrong though cause I wasn't a coder for the SCP at the time.

Nuke · **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:31:35 pm

iirc, retail freespace would run in either d3d or glide mode (i ran it in glide on my voodoo 3, and later on geforce cards after 3dfx went tits up) before the scp got ahold of it. therefore some abstraction between the apis and the engine was already in-place before the source was released. this no doubt facilitated the move to newer apis. of course i didn't do the work so what do i know.

in my expiriience with games i find opengl to be far more futureprood than d3d. glquake still runs without glitches in graphics, though there are often issues with modern network stacks. in contrasts most of the d3d games i have from the 90s dont work worth a damn, dispite being newer than gl quake. real kicker is i can still play some older glide games with a glide wrapper, while most of dx 5, 6 and 7 games wont run at all.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:45:47 pm

Interesting. I couldn't quickly ascertain the year for D3D5's "reign". Interesting point on ignoring Glide. Glide was an afterthought on this game too... (I am not a programmer - What was involved in the upgrade to D3D8?...and to OpenGL?

Have to respect MS for staying with their evolutionary pathway on D3D, but that's not an educated opinion. You obviously had good reason for climbing over to OpenGL.

chief1983 · **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2011, 08:10:34 pm

Yeah, cross platform support mainly, and if it already supported Glide I'm sure that made the move easier still.

jr2 · **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2011, 12:02:12 pm

I've used zeckensack's Glide wrapper before... latest was 0.84c IIRC I don't think it is maintained anymore. Ya, June 2005 was the latest release, v 0.84c I have the executable if anyone wants.

EDIT: List of supported games here

Nuke · **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2011, 01:57:52 pm

Quote from: jr2 on February 25, 2011, 12:02:12 pm

I've used zeckensack's Glide wrapper before... latest was 0.84c IIRC I don't think it is maintained anymore. Ya, June 2005 was the latest release, v 0.84c I have the executable if anyone wants.

EDIT: List of supported games here

thats the one i use for most glide games. it works in everything thats not native dos.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2011, 04:19:27 pm

Glide wrappers work well. There are key reasons to want to move past wrappers in this game, including cross platform as noted above.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2011, 04:24:07 pm

One other issue is the FPS impact on custom terrains built from GIS grayscale, specifically mountainous.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:20:41 pm

Update: things are advancing through C++ pro analysis. Is it appropriate to inquire (in this thread or other: I feel a move in the near future <G>) who would be a highly experienced OpenGLer (in this instance: "upgrader"), with a focus towards each element being licensable for a future re-release?

winging it

The E · **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:06:24 pm

Ask Carmack?

BaronsWingman · **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2011, 03:00:37 pm

Carmack search failed to locate

crazy_dave · **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2011, 04:10:32 pm

Quote from: BaronsWingman on February 24, 2011, 10:40:27 am

Having roamed through the forums, I feel that there is a brain drome's smartbomb headed my way before I even get this posted......

I was referenced this way in GameDev two years ago when I asked about porting 1998 best selling WWI flight sim from Glide to OpenGL. It was said that a team involved in FreeSpace had done that. Am I in the right universe for asking if that is the case, and if so, who is a guru with that experience? I am not a programmer, but I have a C++ guy reorganizing the old code, which he says is actually of high quality despite its being disorganized. A million unit seller died upon arrival because of several unfixed glitches, then the code was lost until recently unearthed after much effort, it having been left on an old computer that could have gone to junk, but sat in the garage. We want to take it forward, we have the rights to sell it and apply the sales income to programming and graphics. We are in a hurry to get to the first new upgraded exe, then go forward step by step from there.

If I am posting in the wrong area, I apologize.

BaronsWingman

Are you referring to Red Baron 3D? It does work in Wine + Glide Wrappers for cross-platform, but I agree that a truly cross-platform version (i.e. works natively on Linux and Mac - especially since Wine on Mac doesn't fully support joysticks yet) would be nice. I know there is a project that has the current IP holder's blessings to do "official" mods (http://redbaron3dofficialsite.com/mission.php) but I don't think they have access to source code - just changing the models and flight models.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:33:57 am

That would be us..and yes, we do have "it". Our C++ teammember says ignore Glide, replace existing graphics library with the OpenGL engine, and keep the planes, terrains, etc. artwork at this time.

We need an OpenGL expert. No more wrappers.

chief1983 · **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:58:05 am

I think The_E was jokingly referring to John Carmack of id Software. But I could be wrong. Anyway, like I said, we don't have much OpenGL experience among our active members to spare, but I wouldn't be able to blame anyone wanting to spend their time on a project with some chance of reimbursement. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

BaronsWingman · **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:39:12 pm

Hey Chief Guess I should have broadened my search, eh?

News:

Author Topic: Glide to OpenGL or Freespace? (Read 5958 times)

Glide to OpenGL or Freespace?

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