[Topgun]

Just wanna point out that Satan was orignally considered a fair and just protector of the damned, whose character was later simplified down for the simpletons back in the middle ages. If I remember correctly, at least. 

wrong. Satan was always a pretty bad guy. he was something like loki only worse.

[Titan]

Huh. Ok. 

[Luis Dias]

wasn't satan an archaengel of god, his preferred actually?

[Topgun]

wasn't satan an archaengel of god, his preferred actually?

according to Ezekiel, yes, but that before he tricked Eve into disobeying God.


The name Satan literally means "opposing" or "Accusing". He accuses God of being a dick and accuses humans of following God just so he is nice to them. Its all explained in the book of Job (sorta).

[General Battuta]

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

[Topgun]

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

yes. Thats why we think of him as a little red guy wit horns and hooves instead of a dragon with (6?) heads.

[Luis Dias]

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

And all the rest was made up by someone else.

[General Battuta]

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

And all the rest was made up by someone else.

This is true in the sense that most of it does not come from the Bible. However I doubt that's what you meant.

Speaking as an atheist, if the atheists on this forum could learn to shut up about their beliefs the same way the Christians did several years ago, we could have much less annoying discussions. It's a shame to see the allegedly rational humanist modernists lagging behind those bible-thumping Neanderthals, who've all managed to not mention Jesus every other post.

Stop shoving your beliefs into people's faces, you're just creating friction and fostering an unpleasant environment for the believers.

Also turn off your word filters, they're for babies.

[Luis Dias]

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

And all the rest was made up by someone else.

This is true in the sense that most of it does not come from the Bible. However I doubt that's what you meant.

You doubt well, general sir. I was being facetious, but then so were you when speaking about Milton and Dante. Who are you to deny that these gentlemen had metaphysical insights as good or even better than Job or others?

As far as I am concerned, they are as valid and as original (or if you prefer, as "derivative") as the writings inside the bible.

Speaking as an atheist, if the atheists on this forum could learn to shut up about their beliefs the same way the Christians did several years ago, we could have much less annoying discussions.

Why are you sniping at me like this for being on topic? The thread's topic is "opinions on the existence of hell". I'm voicing mine. Am I in the wrong to voice my opinions on the matter, unless I make the politically correct agnostic caveats all over the place? Must I start every sentence with the redundant "In my humble and ignorant opinion..."?

Help me here, I am at a loss.

It's a shame to see the allegedly rational humanist modernists lagging behind those bible-thumping Neanderthals, who've all managed to not mention Jesus every other post.

Notice that you are showing way more condescendence towards them than I have ever did here. I am discussing ideas, you are demeaning believers. Come on.

Stop shoving your beliefs into people's faces, you're just creating friction and fostering an unpleasant environment for the believers.

Also turn off your word filters, they're for babies.

I'll do as ordered, general. You're the mod here. Also, I wasn't aware that the filter was changeable. It was standard when I reached here. I'm sorry if what reaches my eyes offends you so much.

[General Battuta]

Why are you sniping at me like this for being on topic? The thread's topic is "opinions on the existence of hell". I'm voicing mine. Am I in the wrong to voice my opinions on the matter, unless I make the politically correct agnostic caveats all over the place? Must I start every sentence with the redundant "In my humble and ignorant opinion..."?

If you're going to express an opinion on a belief like this, learn to do it in a way that is inclusive and polite (I think that the mythology of Milton and Dante is just as culturally relevant as the mythology of the Bible) rather than snippy and demeaning (lol, it was all made up). Personally I believe that religious beliefs are mythology propagated for utility, but parading around trumpeting about how it's all made up is just going to piss off my Christian friends.  Those people use this forum too, we don't need to be tools to them (sup mongoose)

Everybody who uses the phrase 'politically correct' is literally Hitler, it's usually a weasel phrase for 'I want to be a huge jerk'.

It's easy to cry 'bias!' when the other side dominates discourse, and easy to get smug and complacent when it's your side doing it.

You doubt well, general sir. I was being facetious, but then so were you when speaking about Milton and Dante. Who are you to deny that these gentlemen had metaphysical insights as good or even better than Job or others?

As far as I am concerned, they are as valid and as original (or if you prefer, as "derivative") as the writings inside the bible.

If you think that has anything to do with the remark I made about Milton and Dante you missed the point pretty badly. Feel free to go back and think about it until you get it.

Notice that you are showing way more condescendence towards them than I have ever did here. I am discussing ideas, you are demeaning believers. Come on.

Are you spergin' out here or what, I feel like it would take either someone raised by wolves or a cerebral lesion to think I was demeaning believers there

I'll do as ordered, general. You're the mod here. Also, I wasn't aware that the filter was changeable. It was standard when I reached here. I'm sorry if what reaches my eyes offends you so much.

That was more directed at Titan, who you quoted, but I'm not giving any orders, just declaring anyone who uses the word filter a HUGE BABY


 

[Luis Dias]

Why are you sniping at me like this for being on topic? The thread's topic is "opinions on the existence of hell". I'm voicing mine. Am I in the wrong to voice my opinions on the matter, unless I make the politically correct agnostic caveats all over the place? Must I start every sentence with the redundant "In my humble and ignorant opinion..."?

If you're going to express an opinion on a belief like this, learn to do it in a way that is inclusive and polite (I think that the mythology of Milton and Dante is just as culturally relevant as the mythology of the Bible) rather than snippy and demeaning (lol, it was all made up). Personally I believe that religious beliefs are mythology propagated for utility, but parading around trumpeting about how it's all made up is just going to piss off my Christian friends.

I read your sentence as something in the lines of "milton and dante are not cannon, they are fannon, and shouldn't be taken seriously, the real satan is described in a place where things were not "made up"". I also read it slightly in the sense of "shut up already about milton and dante's stuff. he's ridiculous!"

I do not think I have reading comprehension problems, but I understand you meant something different. My remark was questioning exactly that line of enquiry.

Everybody who uses the phrase 'politically correct' is literally Hitler, it's usually a weasel phrase for 'I want to be a huge jerk'.

So I'm Hitler? Damn.

Notice that you are showing way more condescendence towards them than I have ever did here. I am discussing ideas, you are demeaning believers. Come on.

Are you spergin' out here or what, I feel like it would take either someone raised by wolves or a cerebral lesion to think I was demeaning believers there

Really. Look at what you said here:

It's a shame to see the allegedly rational humanist modernists lagging behind those bible-thumping Neanderthals...

Am I misreading you again? Must buy some glasses.

Anyway, this is way off topic. I'll be gentler, and quiet. Promise.

[General Battuta]

cool 

and yeah the point was that it's interesting that so much of the imagery from milton and dante is now considered part of christian eschatology when none of it came from the bible, idrgaf about whether any of it should be taken seriously since it's all fiction to me (but you wanted to get up in my grille because you thought i was a true believer)

CANON damn it

[Ghostavo]

Anyway...

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

yes. Thats why we think of him as a little red guy wit horns and hooves instead of a dragon with (6?) heads.

But wouldn't it be more awesome if all religious drawings despiting satan had something like this?

[Jeff Vader]

cannon

[Luis Dias]

(but you wanted to get up in my grille because you thought i was a true believer)

Just want to reply to this and I promise I'll keep quiet for a few hours more. No, I did not think you were a "true believer", for you are (as far as I've gathered) a writer, or at least a fan of good fantasy literature. Most people that I've met in this category all view religion in the same way they see any other fantasy books.

Again, you thought I was targetting you, I wasn't. I was only targetting the idea of canon vs fannon. Which is a whole other debate!

[General Battuta]

Anyway...

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

yes. Thats why we think of him as a little red guy wit horns and hooves instead of a dragon with (6?) heads.

But wouldn't it be more awesome if all religious drawings despiting satan had something like this?

*snip*

I actually have no idea what the **** Topgun is talking about, because in Dante Satan/Lucifer is this huge badass demon thing with three heads, and in Milton he's a shapeshifter.

[Topgun]

Anyway...

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

yes. Thats why we think of him as a little red guy wit horns and hooves instead of a dragon with (6?) heads.

But wouldn't it be more awesome if all religious drawings despiting satan had something like this?

*snip*

I actually have no idea what the **** Topgun is talking about, because in Dante Satan/Lucifer is this huge badass demon thing with three heads, and in Milton he's a shapeshifter.

revelation 12:3. And I thought the traditional goat satan guy was dante's creation, apparently not.

[Flipside]

I've never really believed in the existence of Hell as a place, because everyone's definition of Hell depends on themselves, and the idea of just hurting someone for eternity seems a bit..well.. unoriginal and spiteful even for God.

But then, I've always had a suspicion that God and Satan are the same being, it's us that chose to divide them up into seperate ones otherwise it held an uncomfortable mirror up to humanity

[General Battuta]

Anyway...

Most of the **** about Satan and Hell was made up by Milton and Dante.

yes. Thats why we think of him as a little red guy wit horns and hooves instead of a dragon with (6?) heads.

But wouldn't it be more awesome if all religious drawings despiting satan had something like this?

*snip*

I actually have no idea what the **** Topgun is talking about, because in Dante Satan/Lucifer is this huge badass demon thing with three heads, and in Milton he's a shapeshifter.

revelation 12 and 13. And I thought the traditional goat satan guy was dante's creation, apparently not.

I know where you got the huge dragon from, it's the goat satan thing I wasn't clear on, I'm pretty sure it's some fusion of pagan imagery.

[Flipside]

The goat imagery came from Middle-Ages Europe, because the predominant pagan religions were of Pan, the Goat-headed god of Fertility, Reproduction and Growth ( Leftover from Roman Occupation), and Herne, the Stag-headed God of hunting. High priests on both the Pagan religions used to wear horns and hooves during the religious festivals, so the Church used that image to mark them as 'Satan Worshippers' and kill them.

Edit: It should also be noted that the Pan celebrations in particular were very much the opposite with regards to behaviour to the very Puritanical stage that Christianity was going through, so it became a special target, as well as the source of the claim that Witches sealed their bond with Satan by having sex with him.