[YodaSean]

With the source code having been recently released, it seems that some are getting a source code editing "team" together.  The people on this "team" are selected by an elected manager?  Anyways I'm not really sure I understand what this team will be working on.  Do they have any specific goals???  Or are they going to help others accomplish their own goals?  I hope it is one of these too things, because it appears from what I can find that whatever this team is they don't have any sort of idea about what they are going to do...  Could somebody please explain?

[vadar_1]

We are all usually just trying to work on our code however we want... some more then others.. depending on your familiarity with C...

If you want to get a "team" together, you need to be able to visually communicate all at once within the same building.. ideally in the same room with a group of networked computers... internet just dosn't work for that kind of project... there is no large scale project that could possibly be accomplished by multiple users working together simply by internet... at least over what I call "public internet".

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by vadar_1
If you want to get a "team" together, you need to be able to visually communicate all at once within the same building.. ideally in the same room with a group of networked computers... internet just dosn't work for that kind of project... there is no large scale project that could possibly be accomplished by multiple users working together simply by internet... at least over what I call "public internet".

http://www.evilnet.net/~mechwar3d
http://www.sev.com.au/sevtrek/

[mikhael]

Originally posted by vadar_1
We are all usually just trying to work on our code however we want... some more then others.. depending on your familiarity with C...

If you want to get a "team" together, you need to be able to visually communicate all at once within the same building.. ideally in the same room with a group of networked computers... internet just dosn't work for that kind of project... there is no large scale project that could possibly be accomplished by multiple users working together simply by internet... at least over what I call "public internet".

Um, you have NO idea about the Internet and open source communities, do you?

http://www.postgresql.org -- The single most advanced open source database engine on the planet, developed in a distributed manner over the internet
http://www.debian.org -- one of the best Linux distributions on the planet, developed in a distributed manner over the internet
http://www.freebsd.org -- The BEST unix ever , developed in a distributed manner, over the internet.

The list goes on: BIND, sendmail, Apache, MySQL, PHP, ProFTPd, OpenOffice, Python, Perl, Ruby... The list is huge. Most of the modern Internet runs on software built in a distributed manner over the self same Internet it supports. If it weren't for some of these projects that couldn't be done over the 'public internet', you wouldn't be able to reach this webpage, to talk about this.

Dude, who needs programmers in rooms to develop a mere game?

[vadar_1]

We are talking about a game here, a game that very few people can understand the source... a greater disadvantage that people know different degrees of knoledge... I mean the only thing of all those links thats related to this "project" is the mechwarrior one... and please show me an example of physical progress they have made with it... Your trying to contain a project within an already existing community.... We have modellers, FREdders, etc here... my completly random guess is 5% of active members know some C.... and another 20% know how to open a cpp file... look at it... then close it back up...

I know an open source community can work... but nothing can beat physical means of human communication and interaction... expecially for a project such as "cloaking".

[mikhael]

Where you see weakness, I see strength. Its those 5% who will do the code that the othe 95% who complain, make suggestions, test, etc. Literally thousands of people work on the GNU project, but any schmuck can come along and suggest that an improvement be made.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by vadar_1
I mean the only thing of all those links thats related to this "project" is the mechwarrior one...

Hold on a minute, a 3D movie that was all done over the Internet is fairly impressive, even with its shortcomings.

I know an open source community can work... but nothing can beat physical means of human communication and interaction... expecially for a project such as "cloaking".

I agree that physical interaction is light-years beyond internet communication, but it's still possible to do things thought impossible. I doubt people would have believed that you could do the .product in 63.5 kb, but it was done. We haven't even seen much organization yet, but already things that modders have wanted since FS2 was released have been changed-the tbl limits, for example. The source opens a whole world of things that would not have been possible otherwise, so we've obviously made some progress that wasn't thought to have been possible.

[Inquisitor]

http://www.garagegames.com has dozens of distributed teams. I am going to E3 with one of them. So there are some game relevant teams for you

It can be done, it's being done, and, I expect it will be done.

Tac Ops for UT just went commercial, I think that some of the team members STILL haven't met. Day of Defeat for Half Life will likely go commercial, that team spans 3 continents.

Distributed teams CAN work, you just need special attention paid to communication. We have programming teams in India nad here in North America on projects at work ALL the time, so much that it is a part of the business model.

I wouldn't discount the power of the distributed team.

Anyway, yes, I believe the posts about management and CVS indicate a "team" is gelling. It may not be the kind of team people are used to or expect, but, this time next week, we should have an answer

[penguin]

Originally posted by vadar_1
I know an open source community can work... but nothing can beat physical means of human communication and interaction... expecially for a project such as "cloaking".

You are right that open source collaboration is different that "physical means of human communication and interaction."

It's much better.

Working via the internet, taking advantage of such non-real-time tools such as email, version control, and even forums such as this one, are far better than trying to sit around in real time for design meetings, etc.  I have already probably wasted 3 years of my life in pointless meetings, and I'm not done yet.

Non-interactive communication blurs the timezone problem -- I know we have people across North America, Europe and Oz, probably elsewhere as well, that are interested in FS2 development.  For example, I'm on the US East coast, but I do my most productive work after 10pm local time when the wife & anklebiters are in bed.  Trying to get together for a 4pm conference call or chat or whatever would not work, since my job doesn't see the need to pay me for work on an open source game And I doubt I'm the only one in this situation.

Plus email, cvs commit logs, forums, etc. can be used as reference, to go back and see what's been decided, what suggestions people have made, and who's working on what.

As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, some projects far bigger and more complex than FS2 have come out of this sort of environment -- the GNU system, the Linux kernel, Apache, FreeBSD, PostgreSQL are a few that come to mind.  Hell, the bulk of the Internet as we know it was also developed this way.

I'm not saying realtime collaboration is universally bad, but it's certainly not the only way -- nor even the best way -- to tackle a project like this.

[Stryke 9]

The image of a paid dogwalker holding about 30 dogs on a leash, and each dog headed in a completely different direction comes to mind.


Aside from the fact that i's boring as all get-out, this is the sort of thing that makes me glad I lack skills in programming, or any other field that requires amateur collaborative effort.

[Scuddie]

Well, here's another question, off topic of course .  Will this "team" develop tweaks and fixes only?  IMHO, the added features should not be added at all, that should be up to modders.  It's do-able to upgrade the engine to DX8 or something, but the "team" shouldn't implement bob's beam weapon just yet...  If it involves something that nearly 90% of the community is for, then by all means, go for it.  In other words, this should really be a FS2 improvement project, not a mod in any way.  Of course this is just my opinion, feel free to flame me now .

[NotDefault]

Originally posted by Scuddie
Well, here's another question, off topic of course .  Will this "team" develop tweaks and fixes only?  IMHO, the added features should not be added at all, that should be up to modders.  It's do-able to upgrade the engine to DX8 or something, but the "team" shouldn't implement bob's beam weapon just yet...  If it involves something that nearly 90% of the community is for, then by all means, go for it.  In other words, this should really be a FS2 improvement project, not a mod in any way.  Of course this is just my opinion, feel free to flame me now .

I think the key to everything is to have it backwards-compatible and optional.  All material created for FS2 should still work as intended with a modded FS2, or that modded FS2 is undesirable.  The only place for non-backwards-compatible code is in campaigns that are designed around it.

[penguin]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
The image of a paid dogwalker holding about 30 dogs on a leash, and each dog headed in a completely different direction comes to mind.

Excellent analogy, except in this case the dogwalker would be unpaid