[Snail]

Yeah it's a tautology, all Americans are ignorant~

[The E]

And? You still haven't proven why the european model (or, in your chosen case, the french one) isn't working as well as the american one. You still haven't proven that easy access to education is a bad thing. You are still arguing without actually having data to prove your point (to wit: That a) there's a significantly larger amount of school graduates visiting university, b) that there's a shortage of workers available, c) that raising the bars for education would allow for better economic performance).

Also, you fail to take into account the very simple thing that, if we wanted to, we could do all that. We don't, because there's this common belief spread throughout Europe that education is something that should be free. We think it has worked rather well. Sure, we could do it like the americans. But why would we want to?

[The E]

Also, let's see, France has ~2 Million students in higher education, or about 3 percent of the entire population.

The US show something like 4.75 percent. Soooooooo..... what was that point you were making again?

[Mustang19]

I don't really feel like arguing with you. If I could party for four years off of other people's money while getting my BA in Basket Weaving I would totally jump on it. If you want to read more on the neoliberal argument for education which is meant to apply regardless of international comparisons here's the OECD talking about it. Otherwise, meh.

edit: nevermind, that link wants you to buy stuff

[General Battuta]

You're unemployed and I make bank every hour to argue with you while my skilfully designed STATA scripts do their thing so I feel like you shouldn't be dissing higher education. :colbert:

[Mustang19]

You're unemployed and I make bank every hour to argue with you while my skilfully designed STATA scripts do their thing so I feel like you shouldn't be dissing higher education. :colbert:

And people said serfs or blacksmiths had it easy in the middle ages or whatever, goddamn. It makes me feel pretty genetically predisposed to rob your ass and blame social factors while denying personal responsibility.

[Nuclear1]

Ah, my favorite, the 'liberals are apologetics for criminals' meme.  God forbid we fight crime by understanding the root causes (PLURAL) and taking them out.  But I guess if we actually fought crime, private prison corporations would collapse.  And they pay big money to conservative politicians who will keep their prisons full.

If I could party for four years off of other people's money while getting my BA in Basket Weaving I would totally jump on it.

There certainly are people who would play the system, but there's also a lot of people who want to do something with their lives, and the ridiculous cost of education is keeping them from doing that.

[General Battuta]

Next time you trip I'm going to explain to you how it was a flaw in your character and chew you out for blaming gravity and that shoelace you stepped on. After all it's impossible for more than one factor to contribute to an event, we need to pick something and stick with it (and it might as well be Personal Responsibility)

[General Battuta]

Actually I feel like that point deserves expanding on to help explain why conservative attitudes tend to be so problematic.

If you view the world as a place where people do whatever they want for no reason beyond how they feel there's literally nothing you can do to prevent crime (or any other undesirable behavior) except yell at them to stop. You can try to punish criminals so other people will be afraid to do it, or you can reward those who don't do it, but if the causes of the actual behavior aren't touched by this kind of intervention, you're doing nothing/

If on the other hand you view the world as a giant watch, like any other complex system, and you view crime or a disease or whatever as a ticking of one of the gears, you can look at the clock and figure out what makes it tick and make progress towards adjusting something so you can get what you want. You can treat CAUSES instead of SYMPTOMS. This is the same principle that brought you the computer you're typing on.

Why waste time saying that criminals are bad people when you could be figuring out how to stop them from becoming bad people in the first place? Why waste effort attacking ~IMMORALITY~ when you're not bothering with the actual factors that cause crime?

[Unknown Target]

Do I need to lock this thread? Seems like even the mods can't keep a level head in here. Keep it civil, people. I'll be watching the posts in here.

[Mustang19]

You forgot that there are only two sides to any issue, the purpose of any discussion is to win, and anyone who graduated college has been brainwashed by the Liberal Elite and received an education solely to craft well-concealed lies.

Why waste time saying that criminals are bad people when you could be figuring out how to stop them from becoming bad people in the first place? Why waste effort attacking ~IMMORALITY~ when you're not bothering with the actual factors that cause crime?

You take me too seriously, that was another ****ty troll. I agree entirely with what you said and my whole tromp through this thread was about coming up with cultural causes for social symptoms, and how boosting church attendance is the solution to all ills.

[Nuclear1]

You forgot that there are only two sides to any issue, the purpose of any discussion is to win, and anyone who graduated college has been brainwashed by the Liberal Elite and received an education solely to craft well-concealed lies.

I

I

agh

Please tell me you're joking.

You take me too seriously, that was another ****ty troll.

No, no, no, no!

You got monkeyed for doing this same thing last time!

[General Battuta]

You forgot that there are only two sides to any issue, the purpose of any discussion is to win, and anyone who graduated college has been brainwashed by the Liberal Elite and received an education solely to craft well-concealed lies.

Why waste time saying that criminals are bad people when you could be figuring out how to stop them from becoming bad people in the first place? Why waste effort attacking ~IMMORALITY~ when you're not bothering with the actual factors that cause crime?

You take me too seriously, that was another ****ty troll. I agree entirely with what you said and my whole tromp through this thread was about coming up with cultural causes for social symptoms, and how boosting church attendance is the solution to all ills.

Okay I have to admit I really like you, let's be bros

[Mustang19]

Fist pump. 

[Unknown Target]

You forgot that there are only two sides to any issue, the purpose of any discussion is to win.

I disagree with this. How can you even define "winning" a conversation? The other person is turned to your side? Disgraced? I'd prefer to think that the point of a discussion is to foster understanding.

[Mustang19]

  UT... I mean not what I say.

[Unknown Target]

Ah.

[Nuclear1]

How can you even define "winning"

[Unknown Target]

I'd say this thread has run it's course, no?

EDIT: I locked it then decided that was rather premature. I'll leave it unlocked if anyone has any further pressing issues they want to bring to the table, but I would suggest that those issues be discussed in another thread.

[Mustang19]

I also think it was premature when I laid a death sentence upon this thread. I think this is should be more of a "chat with Batutta while he runs brute force decryption on bank passwords" deal.

Actually I feel like that point deserves expanding on to help explain why conservative attitudes tend to be so problematic.

In all fairness GB I think you are a little quick to lump conservatives into one group. Sure there are a lot of dumb ones but this is just due to their IQ not some misfiring of their neurobiological switches or "the conservative attitude" or "the conservative way of thinking". There are intelligent conservatives out there (maybe not social cons though), not saying that I'm one. If I were too liberal for you, you'd be attacking my n00b debating tactics rather than characteristics supposedly associated with all liberals. If you're gonna ad homimem at least do it in a scientific and objective manner.