[Unknown Target]

Who else thinks it's bull****, at least in the US? $160,000 for a "good" education from a good school? A career system that's so intense that the only way to get a good, stable job is to have one of these degrees from one of these good schools, thus putting you into thousands of dollars of debt right off the bat?

 An entire schooling system that values filling in bubbles over actual thought and experimentation?

Anyone else want to compare/contrast their educational experiences, either in the US or in other countries? Discuss problems? Propose solutions?

[The E]

Well, here in Germany, where University education is much less costly (500€ per Semester, with other student loans to the tune of ~10k to 20k €) due to heavy public subsidizing, it's not that big a problem. Note that those are figures one would expect to pay for a degree in CompSci from one of the best CompSci faculties in Germany. Which is certainly far less of a burden in terms of enjoying life after finishing your education.

[General Battuta]

I went to one of the best schools in the country, got financial aid, paid only a few thousand dollars out of my own pocket, got a well-paid job immediately upon graduation, and have no complaints.

However I do think I got lucky. The cost of education is getting a bit high.

[Grizzly]

Our goverment gives us financial aid for universities and all. You can also loan from the goverment in case you end up with financial troubles, and have to pay it back with low interest (To account for inflation). There are people who want to drop the financial aid and go entirely with the so called 'social loan system'. Fair enough.

Our schools are fairly good though. We do have this education inspection around here, I do not know how it is in the US... But we do have our weak schools. But the weak schools I know off are getting much better due to external and internal pressure, so it's fairly nice over here.

[Unknown Target]

Where are you from, -Joshua-?

[Grizzly]

The Netherlands.

[redsniper]

You know... you can get scholarships and financial aid from schools and from the government in the US, too. It's not like you have to pay everything completely out-of-pocket. If you don't want to have $160,000 of debt after school, don't go to a school that's going to cost you $160,000 to get your degree.

[Mustang19]

There's ROTC (the military), public health service, working part time, and a number of other ways you can graduate without debt in the US or quickly have it forgiven. My parents paid for my school so I don't really have any experiences to add.

And you can get a good, stable job with a community college degree in radiography, clinical science or something like that where there's a demand for people. You don't need a bachelor's degree, you just need job training. Graduating from an expensive private school is really overkill.

[Ravenholme]

Scottish system, my first degree is paid for by the government, although they're thinking of introducing a Graduate Tax.

I'm doing a biology degree (Zoology, to be precise) and I have no real complaints about the degree, as there is a strong emphasis on independent thought, research and experimentation (Especially looking forward to my Honours project, which I start in Summer).

Currently researching for and writing up a review essay on Herbivore-induced Plant volatiles.

[Polpolion]

Who else thinks it's bull****, at least in the US? $160,000 for a "good" education from a good school? A career system that's so intense that the only way to get a good, stable job is to have one of these degrees from one of these good schools, thus putting you into thousands of dollars of debt right off the bat?

 An entire schooling system that values filling in bubbles over actual thought and experimentation?

Anyone else want to compare/contrast their educational experiences, either in the US or in other countries? Discuss problems? Propose solutions?

$160,000? Well if you go out of state/to a private school, yeah. But if you go instate it's always much cheaper, and private schools always have much better ways of getting student aid. I go to UM, which I wouldn't call that a "bad" school, and I'll be paying half of that, tops. A lot of the stuff about not being able to find a stable job isn't the school's fault, either. There simply less demand for some careers, and there's nothing you can do make things any better for yourself except being damn good at what you do.

[Astronomiya]

What thesizzler said.  Seriously, state schools are the way to go if you want cheaper university.  If it's still too much, the government will likely give you grants anyway.  Also, at least some private schools (I know Stanford does this, not sure how many others) will waive tuition automatically if your parents/you don't make enough money, and Stanford at least will also pay room and board if you/your parents make less than $70k/year.  So the sticker price for a university education in the US is rather high, sure, but unless your parents/you are upper middle class/wealthy, you can easily get the government or university to pay it for you.

[Scotty]

Holy ****, $160,000?  Really?  I'm going to be here for six years and it's only looking to cost me ~$90,000.  That's for two Bachelor's in two different kinds of engineering, and engineering is the expensive course at my college.  What did you do?

[CP5670]

Yes, state universities don't charge anywhere near that much if you're a state resident. For that matter, most of the top private colleges have generous aid packages and students there rarely graduate with debt. The lesser known private schools are more likely to rip you off though.

I went to a good state school on a fellowship (and then made a profit in grad school), but even if I had to pay for it, it would have cost much less than what you are suggesting.

[Nuke]

i got a rather worthless 2 year it degree from an equally worthless diploma mill. i wanted to go to devry (hell i lived 3 blocks away from their campus at the time) but my family wouldn't front the bill for the entrance exam. so instead i went to the same school my brother and his wife went to. it ended up only costing me $13000 in loans. but no jobs materialized when i got out. so i ended up working at a pawn shop, and then moved back to ak and worked on building bikes for several years. these are certainly jobs i didnt need an it degree for and could have done right out of high school. it would have been somewhat more profitable for me if i didnt have to spend most of it on loan payments. i managed to pay my loan at twice the the minimum payment all that time and it never went below 10k. eventually i said **** it, told the loan people to **** themselves and i haven't sent a payment since. i now live off the government and have possibly developed schizophrenia.

[jr2]

It never went below 10k?  What was the interest rate?  .... and if you'd made the minimum payments, would it have gone up??    EDIT: Oh, and what was the minimum payment?

[Nuke]

i dont remember, my first act of defiance was to burn all my documents. point is the debt was too big of a burden considering the ****ty jobs i had to work because they lied to us about the kind of jobs that were available. they told us we would earn 25-50k a year salary where i never earned more than 14k. so it put me in a situation where i could barely afford the payments.

[Mikes]

As far as business administration goes most of the offers in the US are a joke.

Read: Managers Not MBAs by Henry Mintzberg for an introduction into the whole mess.

The old joke goes along the lines of: Well why isn't our newly employed MBA doing anything!?! ...  what you mean by "he's waiting to get a case study?".

[perihelion]

It was all a while back, but I know I wasn't forking over that kind of coin when I was in college.  Sheesh!  Where on Earth were you attending?

I had a few minor undergrad scholarships that probably paid for my books about 1 semester out of the year.  I worked 5 summer internships at 3 different companies.  That managed to cover my in-state tuition and fees for fall semesters.  I was definitely losing money each year during my undergrad, but I wasn't bleeding money.  I was lucky to have been born into a family that could afford to get me though my undergrad, though.  My wife and I got married shortly after we got our undergrad degrees.

At grad school, my wife and I turned a profit.  I was a research assistant and she was an NSF fellow, both at top-flight engineering departments.  As far as our masters degrees went, the experience was a very sour one.  That had more to do with that particular university than masters programs in general (I hope).  They had gotten top national ranking for several of their engineering programs and were more concerned about keeping that rank than any amount of damage inflicted on the students and faculty in the process.  It was a bitter, hostile, and terrifying time.  By the end, any idealism we may have had about academic research was gone.  Far too many research programs seemed to exist only to perpetuate their own existence and contributed nothing of value to the nation that was funding them.  There were around ten of us that were really close to each other at the time.  We'd all planned on getting our Ph.Ds.  In the end, only my wife and one other could stomach spending more time in academia, and both did so by returning to their undergrad universities.

When we went back to TAMU, I decided to skip the PhD entirely and just get out into industry.  The "development" part of R&D is the part I always enjoyed the most anyway.  I have not regretted that decision.  I have worked as a design engineer for almost 9 year now at two firms.  I am well compensated, and I have a good reputation in my industry (I'm always a little surprised by that, but I do actually meet people I've never met who know who I am.  It is a little creepy, tbh).

My wife finished her PhD and goes up for tenure at the beginning of next year.  She's still sour about research.  She does more than the minimum required, but she hates doing it.  She focuses most of her efforts on teaching and getting her department to up its game in getting the kids ready for real world engineering (i.e., train them how to think, not just look up valves on a table).

So, mixed bag, but all in all I loved my undergrad program, and I do not regret having gotten my masters degree, just where I got it.  Since I've attended 4 different universities at various times, I can say with certainty that your experience (not to mention cash flow) will vary a LOT depending on where you go to school.

[CP5670]

I definitely enjoy the research side of things, but doing pure research only (i.e. writing papers) doesn't lead to great career options. I have never done much in the way of product development or "problem solving" but think that would be something I would like too. The job offer I took should allow me to do a good mix of both.

My own experience as a grad student has been excellent but unusual in some ways, even compared to others in the same program. This does vary a lot with the program, field of study and your advisor, much more so than undergrad life.

[Klaustrophobia]

if you're paying $160,000 and "filling in the bubbles," you did something TERRIBLY wrong selecting a school.  i had my share of wankery humanities classes, but other than that i had my ass whooped for 4.5 years of uni, and i've got the skills and knowledge to show for it.  my parents paid for mine, but if you want to go to college, there is always a way to pay for it.  aforementioned government grants and loans, private loans, military commitments if you're into that, etc.  a popular approach at my school was to RA, which got you free board and food plus a stipend that could go toward tuition.  a REALLY good summer internship could cover the rest if you stretched it, or you could come out with a lot smaller student loan debt.  if you put in the work to a worthwhile degree, you'll come out with good career prospects and loans aren't a problem.  some employers will even pay them off for you.