Author Topic: New Doctor Who  (Read 18375 times)

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Offline Destiny

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That red-haired girl is pretty...ahem, attractive.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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INTERJECTION

Haven't been able to see the series yet, I can't find a place to, ahem, aquire it. But I wrote this on my page and I thought it may be relevant to the topic;

Quote
So I had an interesting thought while talking with Cleverbot earlier tonight. It mentioned Doctor Who, and we got into a discussion about time. I thought that, for the Doctor, he might see time in a similar way to how I see what is “up” in an aircraft or especially in a spacecraft - it’s all relative to your perspective. The Doctor jumps back and forth through time, yes, but on his own personal timeline, he can only travel in one direction; he is only getting older. When I fly a plane, “up” can be either the sky or where my head is relative to my feet; in a spacecraft, there is no up other than what I choose it to be.

So that might explain how Doctor Who sees time. For him there may not be an all encompassing “past” or “future”, (for instance, like how the American Revolution is in the *past* for us) - instead, it would be relative to him; it was in his personal past wherein he met Thomas Jefferson and stopped a rampaging Harak-hur from eating the Declaration of Independence, but if he went back to before that event and made sure that Thomas Jefferson as a child wasn’t killed by being run over by a wagon, that would still be in his present and the previous event would have been in his past; again, it’s all relative to him. This is also not to say that the entire universe is relative to him; this would be similar for other Time Lords as well - they would experience time relative to themselves.


Actually that might also explain the grandfather paradox, i.e. what happens if you go back and kill your own grandfather before he meets your grandmother, therefore your parents never meet and you are never born. Let's make that simpler and say you stopped your parents from ever meeting and thus stopped you from being born. History as it's now remembered by all your parents friends is devoid of any mention of you or their significant other.

Now, to an outside observer you might have just made time go all higgildy-piggildy, but to you, you're still on a linear path. You were born on some date, you discovered time travel, let's say, when you were 25, and you went back and stopped your parents from meeting when you were 30. It's all a continuous line for you. What essentially has happened, I believe, is that if you looked at time like...like neurons, actually, where one cell is connected to many many ones around it, and in turn connected to many ones around that...you have removed the connections between you and your parents and anyone that was connected to you through them. You personally are aware of what you've done and thus you still retain your memories; again, to you time is linear and you did have parents until suddenly at 30 you did not because you stopped them from meeting. You would still have your friends, maybe, unless the only reason you met them is because you had parents; so you probably would have your friends from when you were at least 18 and went to uni, but any friends that are linked to you through just your parents would be gone; that's not to say you couldn't meet them and become friends with them again, but the relationship would be different, at the very least, the original meeting circumstances would be.

I can imagine why meeting yourself on your own timeline might be an issue; if your sense of time is completely linear in order to maintain a logical order of events, if you started interfering with your own personal sense of time, I doubt the entire universe would explode, but it's possible that you might. I honestly don't know what would happen if you went back in time to tell your past self of something in the future; it's equally possible that nothing would happen, as again your time stream would still be linear - at 35 you went back in time and talked to yourself. I imagine the biggest complication would be what happens to you immediately once you break off contact with your past self; say you go back in time and tell yourself what the winning lottery numbers are. However, let's say that later while you are talking with yourself you get annoyed and punch your other self in the face, permanently knocking a tooth out. It's possible that that tooth would not be removed from your own head until after you broke off contact (i.e. went back to the future), because while you are still interacting with your past self, there are still more teeth you could knock out. I guess it's like thinking that you can't save the file you're editing if you have the same file open in a different window. Once you close one window you can make changes and when you reopen the other one those changes will be apparent, but you can't do it while both are open at the same time.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:14:50 pm by Unknown Target »

 

Offline starbug

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Quote
Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video might be of interest to some of you.

Been following his work for a long time and it is FRICKIN AWESOME!!! Thats how the Cybermen should of been, bloody hard as nails ie lifting up a car and chucking it at a dalek!! also they have jet packs and the design is genuis!! The BBC should hire this guy as the beeb have just anounced they are animating some more of the lost stories starting with William hartnells Reign of Terror.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnubisX1

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Offline MP-Ryan

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Spoiler:
OK, I've been trying to wrap my head around the convoluted timelines of The Doctor and Melody/River, and it's making me head hurt.

However, it does appear that we're going to have to visit some forests in the Doctor's near future to sort things out, as that's where River gets her name.  Really, we've now got a pretty decent picture of the later years of River's life.  Working backwards from her death, we've made it as far [earlier] to her first romantic involvement with the Doctor.  Presumably Rory's encounter with her at the prison was after River actually appears at Demon's Run, hence her foreknowledge, but her appearance at Demon's Run follows her first kiss with him.

I think - someone correct me - that Melody/River's timeline looks like this [on screen]:

Melody Born - Melody Kidnapped - ???Melody Escapes/Turned Loose from Badddies on Earth??? - ???Melody Regenerates??? - Melody kills The Doctor [motivation unknown] - ???Melody ends up in the Gamma Forest and Melody Pond becomes River Song??? - ???unknown years pass, River ends up in prison somewhere/time??? - River Song present at the death of The Doctor - River Song, Amy/Rory and The Doctor fight The Silence and it's ne'erdoers on Earth - River Song present with the Pandorica and universe reboot - River Song present with the ship of crashed Angels *shudder* and the Clerics/etc [sidenote:  related to the organization at Demon's Run - River Song arrives after Demon's Run battle to explain who she is - River is killed in the Library with Tennant's Doctor.

Notwithstanding the fact that she's Amy's daughter and has in part been raised by the Doctor, I'm betting a fairly full romantic relationship is being written in here.

I think River's involvement in the show is one of the most interesting parts of the plot since she was introduced. 
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Offline Flipside

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Spoiler:
I would say that pretty much covers it. After all, consider what River looked like when we first ever met her in the Library, an unknown occupant of a Space Suit in Forest of the Dead ;)

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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They appear to have forgotten about regeneration. Unless Melody only has one regen in her (used in the Alley)...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 02:11:18 am by Dekker »
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-Inferno R1
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-Sol: A History
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(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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Offline starbug

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Spoiler:
i'm not sure it was her in the spacesuite when it killed the doctor as the adult river should of known what was happening?? but she looked as shocked as amy and rory. As for the regeneration could be that she is part timelord as Vastra said the babys DNA has timelord elements to it.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back.  :nod:
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The only good Zod is a dead Zod
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Offline karajorma

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Why is everyone assuming that River Song has to go to the Gamma Forest? :confused:

The whole "The only water in the Forest is the River" thing was simply because the girl from the Gamma Forest didn't have a word for pond. The first time that River Song meets the Doctor she couldn't say her real name, it would be a massive spoiler as she meets Amy later on. So she'd obviously choose a pseudonym and River Song is about as obvious a pseudonym as you can get. The whole Gamma Forest thing could easily be a coincidence.

And if that's not enough for you, at some point someone is sure to mention River Song to Melody Pond. :p
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 10:34:46 am by karajorma »
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Offline headdie

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Offline karajorma

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Wasn't this the same guy complaining about spoilers a few months back? :p
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Offline Iss Mneur

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Wasn't this the same guy complaining about spoilers a few months back? :p
Its not really spoilers when you use your own pet theory/story in a series that you were a fan of 16 years ago. :P  We should see if we can find more of his posts from then...

That theory/plan, could also explain The Master's name as well.


Anyway, now that Space decided to show the last episode. I have to agree with Kalfireth, the lead up with everyone saying that The Doctor will do "terrible things" was sort of let down, especially how he has behaved in previous episodes.  However as I think about it, this is a two part episode and when The Doctor figured out who River is he just flew away without saying anything or taking anyone with him, so he is obviously up to something (that probably involves his ganger as someone else mentioned).

I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back.  :nod:
But River lives in the computer.  Possibly The Doctor destroyed her ability to regen because he didn't know that River could actually.  For that matter, that first meeting happened before the universe was rebooted, maybe because River was conceived when she was in this universe the rules have changed?

Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video might be of interest to some of you. :)
The video at this link is dead, does someone have another link or the name of the "episode"/"series"?
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Offline NGTM-1R

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maybe because River was conceived when she was in this universe the rules have changed?

While a fascinating theory, this goes bad places over Amy wanting her child to be at least a bit of the Doctor's and I think we've nixed that.

Please god let us have nixed that.
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Offline General Battuta

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I'm not sure I posted my reaction to the last episode, but while it was great fun I'm not sure it lived up to the idea of being the Doctor's darkest hour.

 

Offline Flipside

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Not really. It was more or less a re-run of the Davros scene at the end of The Stolen Earth, so unless something happens later on this year, I wouldn't really call it his darkest hour either.

 

Offline Fineus

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(Spoilers ahead!)

Agreed.. his companions (Amy / Rory) got a bit pissed off with him but since he couldn't have predicted that Amys child was a ganger at the time - I don't see how they can be too pissed off with him, even if it was an oversight.

I'm more amazed that he actually was naive enough to think the entire plan had gone off without any flaws - that seemed very out of character.

But his darkest hour? No... that'd be something like irretrievably getting Amy or Rory killed... losing the Tardis... something of that nature. As it is he got over things pretty quickly then did a vanishing act on everyone. I *hope* the next part of the series will be a lot darker as the Doctor breaks a few of his own rules to bring back Melody. But he might just swan about a bit instead.

 

Offline Mefustae

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I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back.  :nod:
But River lives in the computer.  Possibly The Doctor destroyed her ability to regen because he didn't know that River could actually.

No. River took the Doctor's place in the climax of that episode specifically because it would be an insta-death and hence he would've been unable to regenerate. Therefore, her ability or inability to also regenerate is irrelevant. No regeneration would have taken place regardless, so she may still have it in her.

Also, I just want to state that that was an awesome ending for her character. If they contrive a way to download her into a new body, and thereby continue her story, it would completely undermine the fact that they were trying to convey the first/last meeting that sets the stage for their backwards relationship. It would cheapen it.

(Spoilers ahead!)

Agreed.. his companions (Amy / Rory) got a bit pissed off with him but since he couldn't have predicted that Amys child was a ganger at the time - I don't see how they can be too pissed off with him, even if it was an oversight.

I'm more amazed that he actually was naive enough to think the entire plan had gone off without any flaws - that seemed very out of character.

But his darkest hour? No... that'd be something like irretrievably getting Amy or Rory killed... losing the Tardis... something of that nature. As it is he got over things pretty quickly then did a vanishing act on everyone. I *hope* the next part of the series will be a lot darker as the Doctor breaks a few of his own rules to bring back Melody. But he might just swan about a bit instead.

It wasn't so much his darkest hour, but rather such a collossal fall. He went from a resounding victory against all odds, with no deaths or real danger, to a complete a total loss of both the baby and several of the Doctor's allies. Going from total win to almost total loss in mere minutes, I'd say that counts for the Doctor's greatest fall.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 08:49:47 pm by Mefustae »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Losing Rose.



That'd p155 me off.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
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Offline General Battuta

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Quote
It wasn't so much his darkest hour, but rather such a collossal fall. He went from a resounding victory against all odds, with no deaths or real danger, to a complete a total loss of both the baby and several of the Doctor's allies. Going from total win to almost total loss in mere minutes, I'd say that counts for the Doctor's greatest fall.

Can't agree with that - he's lost far more allies than this in the past, and he knows the baby is gonna turn out fine so it hardly matters.

This episode had a great idea for an arc (Doctor, in his anger, screws up and loses control of a baby who will grow up into someone who will be his lover and then, maybe, kill him) but totally failed to execute.

 
Well i totally missed this thread until now, but I can say the New Dr Who is good, Amelia Pond is pretty, the lost of her baby to the enemy is gonna leave a lot of episode possibilities ahead :) And until I found out that River Song was Amy Ponds daughter I was thinking maybe since she is half Time Lord, maybe the doctors child? or a companion for him?








Oh btw see under my name it says " there and back again"? Well I went " there" again and now I'm back for ever :) retirement sux though so I'm back to my old job with the city :) AND playing Freespace again.
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