[Nuclear1]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8471907/WikiLeaks-Guantanamo-Bay-terrorist-secrets-revealed.html

Al-Qaeda terrorists have threatened to unleash a “nuclear hellstorm” on the West if Osama Bin Laden is caught or assassinated, according to documents to be released by the WikiLeaks website, which contain details the interrogations of more than 700 Guantanamo detainees.

However, the shocking human cost of obtaining this intelligence is also exposed with dozens of innocent people sent to Guantanamo – and hundreds of low-level foot-soldiers being held for years and probably tortured before being assessed as of little significance.

The Daily Telegraph, along with other newspapers including The Washington Post, today exposes America’s own analysis of almost ten years of controversial interrogations on the world’s most dangerous terrorists. This newspaper has been shown thousands of pages of top-secret files obtained by the WikiLeaks website.

The disclosures are set to spark intense debate around the world about the establishment of Guantanamo Bay in the months after 9/11 – which has enabled the US to collect vital intelligence from senior Al Qaeda commanders but sparked fury in the middle east and Europe over the treatment of detainees.

Also, Wikileaks database of all Gitmo detainees.

[Nuke]

how do i get a job at gitmo, i think i would be an effective pain technician.

[Bobboau]

hmmm.. this is gonna be an interesting one.

[Beskargam]

how bad is it that it doesn't bug me that much about whats going on there?

[Flipside]

The whole thing about the Wikileaks is that there's been very little released that shocked me. Now, don't confuse that with not caring about it, but the history of warfare is rife with far worse, so whilst these leaks may contain some information that doesn't make very pleasant reading, it doesn't make very surprising reading either.

[Beskargam]

kinda feeling the same. Dont understand why its such a big deal. i highly doubt we are the only gov that does this

[Unknown Target]

The idea is that America is supposed to stand up for "ideals". It's the grand experiment; to see if doing the doing the right thing really is a good thing.

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

[General Battuta]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

What a silly thing to say. When, exactly, did this Old America exist? In what naive fantasy?

Was it when we got our start by committing genocide on the previous tenants of the continent?

Was it when we waged brutal media campaigns, shot rival politicians, and bribed voters with alcohol in the early days of the Union?

Was it when we imported thousands upon thousands of slaves, then decided to slaughter each other to resolve the issue?

Was it when we unilaterally invaded and occupied foreign countries like the Philippines to pursue dreams of empire?

Was it when we threw tens of thousands of our own citizens into concentration camps because they were the wrong color?

Was it when we financed dictators and terrorist regimes because we thought they were better than the Soviets?

When, exactly, did this mythical Old America exist? Or are you simply and actually delusional? Read some real history. Learn something about the nation you live in. Snap out of it.

[Flipside]

I think it's a case of 'putting money where you mouth is' there, America has frequently been selling itself as a beacon of Freedom despite the fact it suffered from exactly the same discriminations and censorships as many other Democratic countries of the time, racism, homophobia, sexual inequality etc. Like many other countries those prejudices and problems are still a cause for concern even today, though things are far better than they used to be, but when it comes to personal freedoms and rights, the truth is that America isn't really all that different from Europe, some things they are better at, some things worse, but generally, it's on a level.

[Nuclear1]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

Old America never existed.  We've been doing stuff like this for years, and it's no less hypocritical for us to go around championing human rights in third world countries while holding people in Gitmo than it was to "lead the fight against Nazi death camps" while interning the Japanese, or to "liberate" Cuba from the horrible Spanish while oppressing the Philippines.

I think it's a case of 'putting money where you mouth is' there, America has frequently been selling itself as a beacon of Freedom despite the fact it suffered from exactly the same discriminations and censorships as many other Democratic countries of the time, racism, homophobia, sexual inequality etc. Like many other countries those prejudices and problems are still a cause for concern even today, though things are far better than they used to be, but when it comes to personal freedoms and rights, the truth is that America isn't really all that different from Europe, some things they are better at, some things worse, but generally, it's on a level.

Yeah, you gotta love American Exceptionalism...

[Unknown Target]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

What a silly thing to say. When, exactly, did this Old America exist? In what naive fantasy?

Why must you always pick a fight and with such gusto, GB? Am I mistaken in feeling that you like to specifically target me?

Yeah, you gotta love American Exceptionalism...

Hey, a long time ago people really accepted this idea.

[Nuclear1]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

What a silly thing to say. When, exactly, did this Old America exist? In what naive fantasy?

Why must you always pick a fight and with such gusto, GB? Am I mistaken in feeling that you like to specifically target me?

[General Battuta]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

What a silly thing to say. When, exactly, did this Old America exist? In what naive fantasy?

Why must you always pick a fight and with such gusto, GB? Am I mistaken in feeling that you like to specifically target me?

I'm just saying what everyone's thinking. Your obliviousness was worth bemusement when it got you kicked off Diaspora, but I don't think anyone realized it ran this deep.

Do you have a response to the points at hand? It seems as if a lot of your opinions about how 'everything is changing' are simply repeats of the same complaints people have made for the past couple hundred years. I've read broadsheets from 1800 that say the same things you do almost word-for-word. You lack historical perspective, which makes it difficult for you to identify the real problems our society faces.

[Scotty]

I, for one, am sorrowful at the fall of the "Old America". It did some truly magnificent things...and I am saddened at the mindset that allows things like this to happen.

What a silly thing to say. When, exactly, did this Old America exist? In what naive fantasy?

Why must you always pick a fight and with such gusto, GB? Am I mistaken in feeling that you like to specifically target me?

Because you're flat wrong and need to know it.  He's not trolling you (well, it's a handy bonus).

[PsychoLandlord]

Old America

Never existed. I don't understand this Delusional Propaganda about a grand old country that everyone keeps buying into. Yeah, we're better than a lot of places. But we're a nation. With our own interests at heart. We do horrible things, just like every other nation often must do to survive. Sure we can talk a pretty talk, but thats about it.

And if you're one of the many who thinks WWII turned America into the world's Superman, let me put things into perspective for you - we and our allies fought an ambitious Dictator with slightly more Media attention that most, his idiot bootlicking lackey in Italy, and an Asian country that simply could not move past traditions that were simply self destructive in the Modern World. It was not a battle against the Ultimate Evil that America won all by its lonesome. Men worse than these are all over the world even today. Open your eyes.

[achtung]

If everyone's done chastising UT...

I wonder if anything remotely useful has been gained from these detainees. I'm sure there are tons of entertaining, and likely false, "nuke hidden in city X" stories.

[Bobboau]

hypocritical ... to "lead the fight against Nazi death camps" while interning the Japanese, or to "liberate" Cuba from the horrible Spanish while oppressing the Philippines.

now hold on jus a sec here, I by no means think that was our finest hour, but interning Japanese immigrants I believe could be described as a FAR cry from Germany systematically executing the Jews. I don't think they even begin to compare.

[Nuclear1]

now hold on jus a sec here, I by no means think that was our finest hour, but interning Japanese immigrants I believe could be described as a FAR cry from Germany systematically executing the Jews. I don't think they even begin to compare.

Well, imprisoning innocent people in Guantanamo isn't as bad as, say, Iraqis gassing their own people, but, you know, wooden plank in our own eye and all that...

[Bobboau]

yeah, but the thing is, that analogy completely fails, in both of those situations we would be the ones with splinters in our eyes when the other party is the one with redwoods growing from there eye sockets.

The interning of the Japanese was not good. it was the incarceration of a segment of the population based soly on ancestry, but the reasoning, was that we were at war with their previous homeland and that some of them would side with there previous country, as flawed as it was it was absolutely incomparable to rounding up and MURDERING a segment of the population because they were "degenerate filth".

I am not defending the Japanese internment I'm just saying its like comparing apples to cyanide.

[JCDNWarrior]

Instead of focussing on a title as Old America, or however it's called, I'd like to add that it's about the idea, the feeling, like you're the good guys - Since most people used to believe government propaganda, or grew up in all the government propaganda (Just look at all the TV shows for kids today) that their idea of good America is shattered. It doesn't make Unknown Target bad even though we all know in hindsight about it not being smart to believe in such propaganda.

Also, I can't say I like supporting someone for commiting lesser evils than their opponent - Both are just as bad, and the lesser evil will turn into the greater evil when it gets the chance, often enough.