[Mikes]

40% less debt if they instead paid taxes rather than financing the government this way. We would have a deficit, still, but not very much of one, so we could pretty much cut an Army division and fix it.

Declare government bonds held by private investors with income of x or higher as "taxes". You won't even have to collect em, you just don't pay them back LOL. Problem solved.

Kidding aside... I am wondering what drastic measures we are going to see as the short-term debt threath to the system becomes more and more acute.

[MP-Ryan]

Until the US gets over the paranoia about a fair taxation system and comes to terms with the fact that your current medical system costs a hell of a lot more than it should because the implementation is crap, you're hosed.  Defence cuts make sense, but they aren't going to save your economy.

[Ravenholme]

Republic of Haven Plan? 

We need a short, victorious war! (Well, you do)

[Mikes]

Republic of Haven Plan? 

We need a short, victorious war! (Well, you do)

Except that the US is represented by the Sollies pretty much - imho.
... so, just stomp the uppity neobarbs and take their systems... ah oil - i guess

[Ravenholme]

Republic of Haven Plan? 

We need a short, victorious war! (Well, you do)

Except that the US is represented by the Sollies pretty much - imho.
... so, just stomp the uppity neobarbs and take their systems... ah oil - i guess

The economy is better represented by the Republic of Haven post reform, though. And stomping the uppity neobarbs and taking their lucrative terminuses (oil!), to use your analogy, was exactly what the RoH was doing.

[Mustang19]

People like to rap on tax evasion but rich people still pay by far the most taxes. It's just that in other countries the upper bracket taxes are even higher.

Declare government bonds held by private investors with income of x or higher as "taxes". You won't even have to collect em, you just don't pay them back LOL. Problem solved.

That would be considered a default, and the effect on world finances and government credit would be quite the same.

There are ways to stop paying debt without a formal default; for instance the end of controvertiblity to gold under Nixon could be considered a partial default as it devalued the currency.

Kidding aside... I am wondering what drastic measures we are going to see as the short-term debt threath to the system becomes more and more acute.

Likely nothing for a while if the ceiling gets raised. The government was paying twice the interest on treasuries it is now in 2006. With central bank rates so low it's easy for the government to get credit. Even if rates returned to normal it would be years before the world's insatiable appetite for T-bills would be sated.

Government spending itself isn't that bad, deficits are. The only really economically harmful government program is Social Security. But funding for popular programs is getting way higher priority than infrastructural ones. While people are gorging on Medicaid and welfare areas like basic research and roads/railways are badly underfunded. 

[Snail]

1 for you 19 for me.

[Nuke]

this

[Mikes]

The economy is better represented by the Republic of Haven post reform, though. And stomping the uppity neobarbs and taking their lucrative terminuses (oil!), to use your analogy, was exactly what the RoH was doing.

Wellllllllll.... I don't wanna spoil anything... but...

Spoiler:

...assuming you mean Haven's *first* "reform" and the following "short victorious war"... keep reading.

[Ravenholme]

The economy is better represented by the Republic of Haven post reform, though. And stomping the uppity neobarbs and taking their lucrative terminuses (oil!), to use your analogy, was exactly what the RoH was doing.

Wellllllllll.... I don't wanna spoil anything... but...

Spoiler:

...assuming you mean Haven's *first* "reform" and the following "short victorious war"... keep reading.

Yeah, I'm meaning Pre-The Short Victorious War. I'm actually up to Honour Among Enemies, but after that the books are a pain to get in the UK, and it's at this point that Honor has become a major mary-sue.

[Drogoth]

Republic of Haven Plan? 

THUMBS UP I love that book

But I think the US is combination of the horrible state of the PRH's economy, and the ineffectiveness and to some degree. i dont know, I dont want to call it arrogance but something akin to being comfortable with ones own way of life more then any other that is common to the Sollies.

That is a lethal combination, the Solly economy was at least strong. The unwillingness of America to solve their problems in the way that other western countries did led them down this path, and solving the problem is paralyzed by the partisan bickering that goes back and forth between Fox, MSNBC, and their various legions of supporters up to and including political parties.

Mix in the inability of a party leader to whip a party vote on important issues and you have party members eating each other alive (How hard was it for Obama to pass healthcare with his OWN parties support let alone the republicans?) and then nothing gets done.

Mix in crumbling infrastructure, falling literacy rates and a shrinking middle class. There are a wide variety of problems besides the debt ceiling, and the availability of money in the past hasn't fixed those problems, it wont in he future without a radical shift in general public policy, and as I said, the paralysis caused by the partisan bickering has reached such a high level that I have no hope for a solution - just for a minimization of damage.

Regardless of how America comes out of this, there simply needs to be a fundamental shift in the economic locus of the world. An equitable spread between all nations. If it wasn't all concentrated in America the collapse of Lehman Brothers wouldn't have created a global financial crisis. Concentrating a majority of economic power in one country, whether it be America, China, or hell, Luxembourg is dangerous, it doesn't matter which country it is.

But America better get its house in order if it hopes to play any significant role in the future