[SirCumference]

Likewise [the Bible] mocks disbelievers, encourages morally bankrupt concepts like Jesus forgiving your sins(I'll explain if need will really be).

Please do explain what is morally bankrupt about Jesus forgiving one's sins.

[General Battuta]

Atheists with religious beliefs

what is the world

[Qent]

In other words, your proof that he's acting like a jerk is that you've assumed he's acting like a jerk.  Well done.

I gave no proof that he's a jerk, but merely that we don't know what really happened.

[Nuclear1]

Likewise it mocks disbelievers,

In the same way nearly every other belief system on the planet does.  Capitalists do it to Communists, liberals to conservatives, GM owners to Chrysler owners, Christians to atheists and vice versa, traditionalists to those trying to change their tradition.  And that's what this whole issue seems to be about:  not because he's an atheist, but because the community perceived that he was a threat to their traditions. 

Even then, the lawsuit is the best option, because it's obviously the view of these backward hicks that he's trying to destroy 'murica, so might as well come out swinging... heh.

Not really helping...

[achtung]

Even then, the lawsuit is the best option, because it's obviously the view of these backward hicks that he's trying to destroy 'murica, so might as well come out swinging... heh.

[Nemesis6]

Likewise [the Bible] mocks disbelievers, encourages morally bankrupt concepts like Jesus forgiving your sins(I'll explain if need will really be).

Please do explain what is morally bankrupt about Jesus forgiving one's sins.

If you rely on Jesus to forgive you wronging people, you are reduced to the level of the child who kicks someone and then hides behind its parents who have to take the heat for its misconduct. To get a bit closer, the way it works is that you beat up someone, you run home, you tell your parents, and your parents ALWAYS forgive you. Oddly enough, your parents have no concept of morality themselves. But this doesn't matter to you, because you've idolized them so much that their say is final, and once forgiven you can be on your way. If you happen to run into that person again and apologize, that's just extra.

So, when Jesus forgives you, it means NOTHING. Jesus was the son of God, and if he can forgive -- which he always can -- you have no reason to make amends with the people that you wronged. If the highest authority in the universe can forgive you, of course bearing in mind that you've already bought into the idea that human-kind is fundamentally evil, what is the point of you apologizing to the person themself? This particular doctrine of Christianity corrupts -- mostly, it doesn't destroy it -- a basic part of being human; being able to take responsibility and make amends.

Now add in the mix that the person who claims to forgive the sins of others is the son of an ethnically-cleaning, mass-murdering, sadistic, racist megalomaniac. Imagine someone like that walking around like that, taking on the responsibility for people's wrongdoings. Not only is it wrong for the reasons above, it's also hurtful that, somehow, this person takes precedence. I don't wanna delve too much into speculation here, but I figure that religious people are more likely to go to Jesus than... you get where I'm going with this, so there.

[Mars]

Atheists with religious beliefs

what is the world

Wait, what? When did I demonstrate any level of faith here? Or were you refering to Nemisis?

[Qent]

No one claims that Jesus forgives the debts owed to other people, only the debts to God. That would be silly, we'd be overrun with criminal "converts" claiming they've repented and resisting arrest because of freedom of religion.

[Nemesis6]

Likewise it mocks disbelievers,

In the same way nearly every other belief system on the planet does.  Capitalists do it to Communists, liberals to conservatives, GM owners to Chrysler owners, Christians to atheists and vice versa, traditionalists to those trying to change their tradition.  And that's what this whole issue seems to be about:  not because he's an atheist, but because the community perceived that he was a threat to their traditions. 

I guess my point is that Christianity not only enables, it encourages discrimination against Atheists. Atheism is nothing, so an Atheist mocking Christianity is just that -- An Atheist mocking Christianity, whereas a Christian mocking whatever stuff they've "dark-sided", is a Christian being a Christian because intolerance is a fundamental pillar of Christianity. You know, "no gods before me", "non-Christians are liars and antichrists", and God will destroy them, etc.
Don't quote me on this, but I remember a study that found that the more impoverished they are, the more religious they tend to be. And, of course, the more impoverished, the less educated, and the less educated, the less they're able to discard the vile nonsense that the various faiths teach... with the exception of Jainism. The more extreme a Jain you are, the more peaceful you become!

[General Battuta]

If you rely on Jes

WORDS

y to go to Jesus than... you get where I'm going with this, so there.

It's always kind of disgusting to watch people who pretend to adhere to a creed of rationality fabricate and prevaricate to justify their beliefs, instead of coming to understand the beliefs of others.

Good Christians must be as driven to vomit by the Christians we so often scorn (like that doomsday nut) as I'm repelled by these spiritual mummers laying claim to atheism.

It's like watching a junkie try to get clean and then relapse hard.

Don't quote me on this, but I remember a study that found that the more impoverished they are, the more religious they tend to be. And, of course, the more impoverished, the less educated, and the less educated, the less they're able to discard the vile nonsense that the various faiths teach..

Hahahahah listen to this ****. It's like watching a creationist claim that radiocarbon dating proves a literal interpretation of Genesis. Stumbling around three inches from the light and still hopelessly lost.

A good scientist and rationalist would look at that paragraph you typed and come to a conclusion. You just feed it back into your faith.

This thread's really brought out the religious fundamentalists on HLP, and they don't even have the honesty to run out their own colors. They're here to **** up secular humanism instead.

[General Battuta]

If you've hit the point where you've blinkered yourself to all the aspects of a problem except those that favor you, you're running on faith. When you're an atheist interpreting scripture you've lost. It's all over. You've completely lost sight of what religion is, and you're trying to make it into what you need it to be.

You've become a purveyor of faith.

It just goes to show there are extremists on both sides of the spectrum. We'd be better off without both ends of the bell curve - the middle ground is what drives progress.

[Nemesis6]

You like to brow-beat, don't you?

[Mongoose]

It's also kind of deliciously ironic that the very same sort of crazy militant atheism that Nemesis preaches (in the literal sense of that term) is one of the main contributing factors to the reaction that the teen in this story received from his town.

[General Battuta]

You like to brow-beat, don't you?

The great need of our society is for thinkers who can understand and disentangle complex systems.

Those who would simplify, obfuscate, and derail this process with heuristic pitfalls and belief-driven fallacies are the biggest obstacle to human progress. Until we can start rewiring our neural structures there's nothing to do but try to keep them down and keep science and empirical thought moving forward.

[NGTM-1R]

"non-Christians are liars and antichrists",

There's a parable from Jesus of freaking Nazareth, about this very subject. It's not favorable to you.

Also anytime you start throwing around the word antichrist you are opening a very big can of worms re: your actual failure to understand any mainstream Christian religion. The terms is used Biblically exactly once, as "the spirit of the antichrist" and you are currently, in your self-congratulatory smug haze of hate, actually doing a pretty good impression of it.

and God will destroy them, etc.

Doctrine of the virtuous pagan. Works before faith being the largest dividing line between Catholic and Protestant. Half of Christianity, possibly more, doesn't believe this.


If you would mock something, if you would hate it, you should at least try to understand it. You do not demonstrate such understanding or familarity with your subjects, and are thus in turn reduced to parodic status.

[Kosh]

It's also kind of deliciously ironic that the very same sort of crazy militant atheism that Nemesis preaches (in the literal sense of that term) is one of the main contributing factors to the reaction that the teen in this story received from his town.

I would hardly consider upholding the law to be "militant atheism", would you rather he just step back and allow others to trample his rights?

[Nuclear1]

I would hardly consider upholding the law to be "militant atheism", would you rather he just step back and allow others to trample his rights?

Allow me.

1.  Conservative community looks out and sees "militant atheists" removing God from schools, Ten Commandments statues et al.  Community is disgusted and appalled by the "militant atheists"
2.  Atheist in their very town tries to do what they think the MAs are doing to the rest of America.
3.  Community goes on the attack against that kid.

What NGTM1-R Mongoose is saying is that the community had gotten its ideas about atheists from the militant branch that Nemesis6 appears to be a part of.  Ergo, he's implying Nemesis6 is part of the problem.

[Kosh]

I would hardly consider upholding the law to be "militant atheism", would you rather he just step back and allow others to trample his rights?

Allow me.

1.  Conservative community looks out and sees "militant atheists" removing God from schools, Ten Commandments statues et al.  Community is disgusted and appalled by the "militant atheists"
2.  Atheist in their very town tries to do what they think the MAs are doing to the rest of America.
3.  Community goes on the attack against that kid.

What NGTM1-R is saying is that the community had gotten its ideas about atheists from the militant branch that Nemesis6 appears to be a part of.  Ergo, he's implying Nemesis6 is part of the problem.

I was quoting Mongoose. But in this situation it's clearly a case of the community not liking being told it can't shove its religious dogma down everyone's throats. Kudos to the kid for standing up for himself.

[Scotty]

Leaning more toward the "he's a dick" side at this point.  Mostly because I can't help but wonder why he didn't say something about this, oh, a few MONTHS before graduation instead of a few days.  And also why he threatened legal action BEFORE even getting a response.

Yeah, rights are sweet and all that, but if the problem exists and is able to be fixed the entire time, fix it at some point that doesn't make you look like a colossal douchebag.  I mean, seriously.

[Mars]

Leaning more toward the "he's a dick" side at this point.  Mostly because I can't help but wonder why he didn't say something about this, oh, a few MONTHS before graduation instead of a few days.  And also why he threatened legal action BEFORE even getting a response.

Yeah, rights are sweet and all that, but if the problem exists and is able to be fixed the entire time, fix it at some point that doesn't make you look like a colossal douchebag.  I mean, seriously.

Did you know what your graduation was going to be like a few months ahead of time?