[MP-Ryan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-news/getting-nervous-about-nuclear-power/article2040659/

German Chancellor Angela Merkel jolted the nuclear industry on the weekend with her announcement that Europe’s industrial powerhouse will close all 17 of its nuclear reactors by 2022, pulling the plug on a technology that until recently supplied Germany with 23 per cent of its power.

Talk about knee-jerk reactions.  I think we have a few Germans around here; any of you care to elaborate on this?

[Ravenholme]

Yeah, it's a sensationalist and uniformed policy to a sensationalist and uninformed knee-jerk reaction by the public, in regards to the Japanese incident which was pretty damn exceptional.

[NGTM-1R]

I somehow doubt this will actually work.

[Flipside]

I somehow doubt this will actually work.

Agreed, but by that stage, it will be someone else's problem. Always the downside of Democracy.

Edit: The ironic part is that most of the wind-farmable energy sources are in the North and most of the Industry in the south, and the environmentalists are already complaining about the possibility of an 'Energy Autobahn' running across the country in a series of Pylons. Cake and Eat-It mentality throughout.

[AtomicClucker]

Yeah, it's a sensationalist and uniformed policy to a sensationalist and uninformed knee-jerk reaction by the public, in regards to the Japanese incident which was pretty damn exceptional.

Regarding how the Japanese gubbermint bungled the reporting and censorship of the issue, I'm not surprised at the backlash in public opinion. Nuclear power is only as good as the people running it - idiots can be guaranteed to ruin the most well thought out or safely designed systems. I'd be more confident in Nuclear energy if it was an effeciently run and properly inspected machine, but politics will always remain.

[Angelus]

This discussion about pulling the plug from Nuclear reactors goes on for years now.
The only time were it ever mattered, was before elections, were the politicians promised to pull the plug and fight for environment friendly and cheap alternative energy sources.
It never happened, the runtime of NRs was always increased for a couple of years, after the election was over.
And considering how many politicians are part of the executive board on the companys that run the NRs, it was highly doubtful that it would ever happen.

The terrible incident in Japan, seemes have changed a few things.
I'll wont believe it until it really happens ( in 2022), as there's always the chance to move the plug pulling further back ( like it happened in the last years).

It's a downright stupid move, from an economical point of view.
The price increase for the population will be significant and then, all the people who wanted the NRs offline will start *****ing about the prices for alternative energy. Jerks, all of them.

[AtomicClucker]

It's a downright stupid move, from an economical point of view.
The price increase for the population will be significant and then, all the people who wanted the NRs offline will start *****ing about the prices for alternative energy. Jerks, all of them.

I'll be taken for surprise when I see an environmentalist (i know, generalisation going here) actually propose a realistic plan built on renewable energy, but they only seem good for few things, and meeting realistic goals is not one of them.

[Angelus]

Everyone of them has a plan or an idea on how to make it work.
The problem is, that those plans are either not affordable, ineffective, ridiculous or all three options together.
And the fact that the Green party is gaining, and in fact rules one of the most important federal states of Germany, which is considered to be of the three engines of the economy, doesn't help at all.

They always had stuppid, idiotic, unaffordable and moronic plans, but now they are in the position to actually try to make them real.
God help us.

There's the hope though, that they will struggle implementing them quickly ( there's resitance from the economy), and if people realize whom they elected, that they'll stay only one term in power.

[Klaustrophobia]

i just don't see how it is possible that any environmentalists still think nuclear power is bad.  they'd pretty much have to be willfully misinforming themselves.  i took me all of a half hour reading in my high school's library 7 years ago to go from knowing NOTHING about nuclear power to realizing it's the best power source currently available, and eventually launching my career.

[Pred the Penguin]

What's happening on the nuclear "battery" front, are those going to be effected?

[Klaustrophobia]

nuclear batteries aren't for general power generation.  they produce power for a long-ass time, but not a lot of it.  useful for things like powering space probes/sattelites and pacemakers (not sure if they've actually been used in those or not).

[Belisarius]

I wonder a little bit, since I'M german, about the reactions the shutdown of our npps causes. Germany has a giant anti-nuclear lobby which grew heavily over the years. The oldest nuclear reactor of germany is located just 30 kilometers away from my hometown. So I'm quite happy about the shutdown and really hope that both reactors in my neighbourhood will be shut down and not just "Biblis A". Many of these reactors aren't equipped with failsafe systems to protect it from all possible technical breakdowns. But of course germans also share another mentality compared to other nations regarding nuclear power plants. So it's not like this technology is being refused just because we don't like the way it's used. If you would have watched the cabinet of our Bundestag you could have seen what they've done within the last 10 years to make the germans 'feel' good. Some non-germans would say that this is absolute ridiculous.

[Ghostavo]

I can't read, so ignore this.

[Flipside]

I wonder a little bit, since I'M german, about the reactions the shutdown of our npps causes. Germany has a giant anti-nuclear lobby which grew heavily over the years. The oldest nuclear reactor of germany is located just 30 kilometers away from my hometown. So I'm quite happy about the shutdown and really hope that both reactors in my neighbourhood will be shut down and not just "Biblis A". Many of these reactors aren't equipped with failsafe systems to protect it from all possible technical breakdowns. But of course germans also share another mentality compared to other nations regarding nuclear power plants. So it's not like this technology is being refused just because we don't like the way it's used. If you would have watched the cabinet of our Bundestag you could have seen what they've done within the last 10 years to make the germans 'feel' good. Some non-germans would say that this is absolute ridiculous.

Sounds more like a refit and rebuild would be better in that case then, bring the reactors up to date, or build new ones as you phase out the old. The problem with a simple phaseout is that it will almost certainly mean that Germany will have to import power from outside in order to maintain that massive industrial base that you have.

The thing is, I know that the current German government is in trouble over the current European monetary problems and the bailouts paid to other countries, I can't help thinking this is an untenable idea designed purely to win votes, but even renewable power sources won't be enough to keep an industrial giant like Germany maintain its current rate of growth, they simply won't be able to keep up.

[Kosh]

I wonder a little bit, since I'M german, about the reactions the shutdown of our npps causes. Germany has a giant anti-nuclear lobby which grew heavily over the years. The oldest nuclear reactor of germany is located just 30 kilometers away from my hometown. So I'm quite happy about the shutdown and really hope that both reactors in my neighbourhood will be shut down and not just "Biblis A". Many of these reactors aren't equipped with failsafe systems to protect it from all possible technical breakdowns. But of course germans also share another mentality compared to other nations regarding nuclear power plants. So it's not like this technology is being refused just because we don't like the way it's used. If you would have watched the cabinet of our Bundestag you could have seen what they've done within the last 10 years to make the germans 'feel' good. Some non-germans would say that this is absolute ridiculous.

They aren't equipped with that stuff because they were built in the 70's. They should be replaced with modern reactors.

Agreed, but by that stage, it will be someone else's problem. Always the downside of Democracy.

Edit: The ironic part is that most of the wind-farmable energy sources are in the North and most of the Industry in the south, and the environmentalists are already complaining about the possibility of an 'Energy Autobahn' running across the country in a series of Pylons. Cake and Eat-It mentality throughout.

Not to mention the billions of Euros worth of subsidies that it would take to actually build enough wind farms to come anywhere near powering a decent percentage of the industry, and that's on top of already absurdly high subsidies on the electricity coming out of it. You guys in Germany are staring down, and seriously considering jumping into, an economic black hole.

[Klaustrophobia]

a (very) quick google search of reactor plants in germany seems to indicate your currently operating reactors are almost all newer than ours.  all i could find in 5 minutes was capacities and BWR/PWR type, not specific models.  regardless, i can assure you they are perfectly safe and not at all outdated.  sure there are newer designs, but the old ones still work perfectly fine.  nuclear tech really isn't all that complicated; it doesn't take a bunch of fancy gizmos to run one.  our reactor fleet here has only recently begun to replace the analog gauges and ticker tape with digital panels.  i used to live within 5 miles of a 2-unit plant, it's a hell of a lot safer than living near a fossil plant.  or even a hydro dam for that matter.

if the goal of this move is truly to get rolling on renewables, why not phase out fossil instead?  from either an enviornmental or economical standpoint, it just doesn't make sense to shut down the nuclear plants.  i've got to think there's something else going on.  unless germany as a whole really is that opposed to nuclear power for whatever reason, in which case i guess that's your choice.  i'll just sit back and shake my head sadly.

[Kosh]

if the goal of this move is truly to get rolling on renewables, why not phase out fossil instead?  from either an enviornmental or economical standpoint, it just doesn't make sense to shut down the nuclear plants.  i've got to think there's something else going on.  unless germany as a whole really is that opposed to nuclear power for whatever reason, in which case i guess that's your choice.  i'll just sit back and shake my head sadly.

Environmentalism isn't really about saving the environment, it's an ideology where the rules of reality don't apply and sensationalism (like the anti-nuke nonsense) always wins.

[StarSlayer]

Is this the "Integration has failed" lady?  If so then I'm not particularly surprised.

[achtung]

I'll just be blunt.

Enjoy sucking Russia's dick for natural gas Germany. Your renewable policy will likely not go as well as you think.

[The E]

Yep, pretty much.

We're going to have to import more electricity from France (who are much saner about this nuclear power thing) and we'll have to build more coal-powered power stations.

To say this is insane is the understatement of the year. But then, the Greens (at least, the radical greens) have never been noted for their common sense. Add to that the current Chancellor's penchant for using public hysteria to gain points (Yes, a nuke plant blew up in Japan. After being hit by several natural disasters that exceeded design tolerances by several 100%. And a cleanup effort that was hampered by mismanagement.), and you get moronic people making moronic decisions.

Personally, I expect these decisions to be reversed before long, maybe not in the next legislative period, but the one after that. Realpolitik is far too strong a force in german politics to be ignored for so long.