[MatthTheGeek]

Shivans seems to have spared Knossoses (sp) on purpose. You never see them attacking those, and they even have one active in one of their systems (the binary beyond the nebula).

[Drogoth]

Shivans seems to have spared Knossoses (sp) on purpose. You never see them attacking those, and they even have one active in one of their systems (the binary beyond the nebula).

Yeah agreed, which is why i didn't mention the knossos in my original post, they are of special significance. But I still find it unlikely that they would have wiped out every single possible piece of space borne infrastructure. I don't think the GTVA has found the home system, or even really the deep core systems of the Ancient's empire yet

[Snail]

Yes. I agree. I don't really think Antares being the home world of the Ancients has a lot going for it.

[Colonol Dekker]

Well. Planet of origin and galactic seat of power aren't always the same.

cough gtva cough cough.

[Snail]

There would be at least one surviving piece of pottery on Antares if it was their home world, no? There was nothing on Antares, at all.

[LoneKnight]

Don't forget that in several of the FS1 Ancients Monologues, they explain that upon discovering subspace technology, they discovered countless other races and systems. Provided how spread out (reasonably) sentient live would seem to be, we would assume that the Ancients traveled across distances much more expanse than the current starmap. Suggesting that Antares was the epicenter of their empire, I feel like there would be considerable more ruins throughout known systems.

As already mentioned, considering the higher amount of ruins in Altair, it should be considered that this region of space was probably closer to their epicenter, if indeed their empire still had an epicenter at all. Considering their technological skills such as creating and stabilizing jump nodes, they could have "opened up shop" literally anywhere.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

Don't forget that in several of the FS1 Ancients Monologues, they explain that upon discovering subspace technology, they discovered countless other races and systems. Provided how spread out (reasonably) sentient live would seem to be, we would assume that the Ancients traveled across distances much more expanse than the current starmap. Suggesting that Antares was the epicenter of their empire, I feel like there would be considerable more ruins throughout known systems.

Uh, if I remember right,it was stated that they colonised the planets in their systems. Then they discovered subspace. Then they began to conquer other systems and discovered other species.

[Snail]

The point that they probably had a much larger empire than the extent of GTVA space still stands.

[FlamingCobra]

Good point. Which means that their empire probably started somewhere else in the galaxy? Or is it possible that since the position of stars shift over time, parts of their empire are scattered all over the place through out the galaxy?

[MatthTheGeek]

The relative proximity of stars in space has no bloody influence in the matter. We don't go from star system from star system "on foot". Only the jump node network matters.

However, it is absolutely possible that jump nodes naturally form and collapse and hence the node network might have been completely different during the Ancient Empire than nowadays.

[Drogoth]

Don't forget that in several of the FS1 Ancients Monologues, they explain that upon discovering subspace technology, they discovered countless other races and systems. Provided how spread out (reasonably) sentient live would seem to be, we would assume that the Ancients traveled across distances much more expanse than the current starmap. Suggesting that Antares was the epicenter of their empire, I feel like there would be considerable more ruins throughout known systems.

Uh, if I remember right,it was stated that they colonised the planets in their systems. Then they discovered subspace. Then they began to conquer other systems and discovered other species.

It said 'and we traveled faster and farther, spreading in our galaxy. And before long, we could see the day where our reachable systems would have been exploited, and then, there would be no where else to go. And we discovered subspace, it gave us our galaxy, and it gave us the universe..'

They went beyond their home system, just as we might be able to colonize say Alpha Centauri (if it had habitable planets) as it's  just over four light years away from Sol. That's a manageable distance to colonize assuming you could reach velocities comparable to light.

Subspace just let them go to other systems even faster

[FlamingCobra]

But the Shivans may also have known about the Knossos all along and just wanted to keep it intact for their own reasons.

Nevertheless, Drogoth is right. The Ancients were spread far and wide throughout the galaxy, and they could have undiscovered relics everywhere. Who knows what other technology they might have had that the GTVA would find useful. The only problem is the GTVA is unlikely to put forth that much effort into discovering this technology. The Knossos was discovered by chance.

Also, someone said that the positions of star systems has nothing to do with the node network. Now why is that?
Don't star systems form nodes to nearby gravitational bodies, which would mean only nearby star systems? If that were so, as the positions of star systems change over time, nodes would collapse when stars got too far away and others would form to closer stars. Thus, the network would change over time.

Which throws my hypothesis for the Ancient homeworld out the window.



EDIT: Aw crap everything I said has already been said. 


EDIT: Well we know the Ancient homeworld was "close" to vasuda and we also know that the position of stars changes over time, so all one would have to do is make a model of the Milky Way and see where Vasuda was 8000 years ago.

[Mars]

A good point has been made here though. We do know that at least some ancients were in GTVA space before they moved out through Gamma Draconis

[Drogoth]

A good point has been made here though. We do know that at least some ancients were in GTVA space before they moved out through Gamma Draconis

Now that you said that, a new theory hit me. Maybe they moved IN through Gamma Drac? (perhaps they had discovered the system long ago, but never colonized? Built the Knossos to sustain the node even if it should one day collapse..?) Perhaps they were fleeing the Shivans out through Gamma Drac, set up some quiet colonies in the Altair/Deneb area hoping that they had evaded detection, encountering the Vasudans along the way?

That would seem to make sense judging by the severe lack of Ancients technology floating around GTVA systems, and the small numbers of ruins would be consistent with new colonies rather then established words. Also, you'd think there'd be  Shivan wreckage floating around during the T-V war if the GTVA had been around established ancient worlds, but the GTA and PVE find ZERO evidence of the Shivans during the 14 year war, and as of yet, still haven't found any. I'm wondering if that's maybe because the Lucifer Fleet found the ancients little colonies, wiped them out, and then continued roaming the galaxy looking for more escaped ancients?

That would help to explain why there were no evidence of Shivans in GTVA space - they never had to fight sustained campaigns there. And then the Lucifer Fleet maybe cycled back around, discovering the Terrans and Vasudans?

I have a weird memory of someone from  saying that they had considered including the ancients as a playable race in the third if they had actually made it, am I right or just completely and totally out to lunch? If so, that might be consistent with the ancients having far flung 'evacuee' colonies

[Black Wolf]

Well, the GTI knew about the Shivans early, as did McCarthy  -  there's just never been outright confirmation of how early they knew - conceivably they had revovered some 8000 year old Shivan stuff during the TV War.

FlamingCobra: Remember that astronomical proximity doesn't seem to matter when it comes to forming the subspace network, so stellar drift shouldn't matter. Subspace moves aroud a lot too - Even stable subspace nodes (the ones on the nodemap) will collapse over a long (but never specified) timeframe. The subspace map could have looked very different in 5600 BC. An additonal problem with the stellar drift idea is that Vasuda isn't a modern star name, and we have no idea which star it is.

[NGTM-1R]

Silent Threat suggests that they were aware earlier than the war began, possibly even talking to Shivans before then; the Hades incorporates a large variety of Shivan systems and even appears to have some Shivan pilots aboard.

[Droid803]

and even appears to have some Shivan pilots aboard.

le wat?

[NGTM-1R]

le wat?

It launched Seraphim. Which performed entirely as Seraphim should, rather unlike the Dragon in Playing Judas. The time difference isn't that large; some kind of performance hit should have been in evidence still if they'd been chopjobbed like the Dragon.

[Droid803]

Not that you could tell, with how **** the Seraphim handles.

[ssmit132]

It launched Seraphim.

Wait, when was this?