[FlamingCobra]

It is suspected that the Vasudans may have actually been visited long ago in their past by another race, simply called 'the Ancients'. Not much is known about this race, but from archaeological digs, it seems that they originated from a system nearby to Vasuda Prime. Since it is unlikely that Vasuda Prime could have sustained a primitive race for long enough to develop space travel, it is not unfeasible that 'the Ancients' may have helped Vasudan culture develop enough to allow them to survive.^[1]

Facts:

• The Ancient homeworld is described as being "near to Vasuda".
• Vasuda has either three or four jump nodes. We know Antares is one of them.^[2]
• In the cutscene immediately preceding Mission 5, Act 1 (Out of the Dark, Into the Night), we get our first Ancient monologue. Accompanying this wonderful monologue is a view of a big planet.
• The background for the "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" mission includes a planet that looks almost exactly like the one in the aforementioned cutscene. I can provide pictures if anybody wants proof.

Conclusion: The Ancients originated in Antares.

That is all. Discuss.

• FreeSpace Reference Bible
• http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Vasuda#Jump_Nodes & http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Antares#Jump_Nodes

[General Battuta]

Huh, that's a pretty cool story.

[Droid803]

Nearby could mean one jump, it could mean two or three (or maybe more, off of known GTVA space). I donno how much significance the backgrounds of the ancient custcenes have, they might just be showing random places, pretty much.

That's not enough information to draw any conclusions IMO. Certainly, it's a possibility.

[Drogoth]

I think that somewhere on the Altair side of GTVA space is far more likely. The odds of finding no remnants of the Ancients in Antares if it was their home world seems pretty low. Keep in mind that jump nodes collapse, so near Vasuda at the time of the ancients could be beyond gamma draconis for all we know. But remains were found in Altair, and some in Deneb as well, which is near Altair. That area seems like a better guess imo.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

The Ancient homeworld is described as being "near to Vasuda".

What is "near"? One jump? Three jumps? On the galactic node network even Dubhe must be quite near to Gamma Draconis. Really, "near" doesn't say much.

Vasuda has either three or four jump nodes. We know Antares is one of them.^[2]

But jump nodes can shift over time, they open and close. Eight thousand years ago, the nodemap might have looked wholly different. See the subspace tech description: "Other nodes have a longer lifespan, existing for centuries or millennia before collapsing."

In the cutscene immediately preceding Mission 5, Act 1 (Out of the Dark, Into the Night), we get our first Ancient monologue. Accompanying this wonderful monologue is a view of a big planet.

Like Droid said, they might just be showing random spacescapes.

The background for the "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" mission includes a planet that looks almost exactly like the one in the aforementioned cutscene. I can provide pictures if anybody wants proof.

Umm, the one in the cutscene clearly is a habitable planet, while the one in "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" is a Neptune-like gas giant. They don't look even remotely alike. In addition, the background in FSPort was made by community members, not by

Personally, I think that the Ancient home system has not yet been discovered by the GTVA - given their level of civilization, it must be full of ruins etc. and would have been quite the archaeological discovery.

[Veers]

Personally, I think that the Ancient home system has not yet been discovered by the GTVA - given their level of civilization, it must be full of ruins etc. and would have been quite the archaeological discovery.

If their home planet was destroyed like Vasuda Prime, would planet-side ruins exist?

Edit: Going off the Official Volition Node Map, I would say that the Ancient home system is currently not connected directly to any known GTVA system, or has not been discovered yet.

I would also describe near, as being between 1 and 3 jumps, at most. Again, based of the Node Map.

Conclusion: The Ancients originated in Antares.

A good conclusion from the evidence provided. But in my own opinion, unlikely.

[Snail]

• The background for the "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" mission includes a planet that looks almost exactly like the one in the aforementioned cutscene. I can provide pictures if anybody wants proof.

That was non-canon and added by the FSPort. The original FS1 had no planets in that mission (or any planets at all for that matter).

[Trivial Psychic]

Keep in mind that jump nodes collapse, so near Vasuda at the time of the ancients could be beyond gamma draconis for all we know.

I think it highly unlikely that any of the Ancients' core space would exist beyond Gamma Draconis.  This is based on the fact that the Knossos devices are placed on the nearside of the nodes to the Nebula, then to the Binary system, and beyond.  They would have had to have created them on the same side of the nodes that they started from.

[General Battuta]

• The background for the "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" mission includes a planet that looks almost exactly like the one in the aforementioned cutscene. I can provide pictures if anybody wants proof.

That was non-canon and added by the FSPort. The original FS1 had no planets in that mission (or any planets at all for that matter).

Oh goddamnit.

[FlamingCobra]

• The background for the "Out of the Dark, Into the Night" mission includes a planet that looks almost exactly like the one in the aforementioned cutscene. I can provide pictures if anybody wants proof.

That was non-canon and added by the FSPort. The original FS1 had no planets in that mission (or any planets at all for that matter).

Excuse you? What do you call this? It is in original campaign. I don't have the port. Go check and see for yourself.

[Snail]

Ah. That's really interesting. You must be playing a different version, like the OEM demo (Darkness Rising, which contained the first act only) or some special DVD release. Some alternative releases actually did have planet bitmaps as well as other things like afterburner trails that didn't make it into the retail version.

I can assure you that the retail version most people got did not have any planet bitmaps. Whether or not they can be considered to be canon considering they weren't in the final release is something for consideration, I guess.

[FlamingCobra]

Mine is on a DVD, but I do not have afterburner trails.

So, what does that mean?

[Snail]

Well there you go.

While we're on the subject, I think they were probably removed because when they overlapped with nebulae they had black boxes around them (in the OEM version they did anyway).

[FlamingCobra]

This is true.

They look pasted on there. But like I said in my reply to the Stars and Planets talk page, I got mine as part of a bundled software package a loooong time ago.

but OEM is not to be found anywhere on the disc. However, one area on the disc does say:

"Bundled Software"
"NOT TO BE SOLD SEPARATELY FROM APPROVED PRODUCT. SEPARATE SALE IS A VIOLATION OF COPYRIGHT LAWS".

Other than that, it's got the freespace logo, volition logo, noiz audio logo, interplay logo, dvd rom logo, and copyright mumbo jumbo. and a spacy looking background on one half.

Menu also says v1.06 (Pentium III)


So now the real question is: "Is it canon?"

[Snail]

I think they could be considered pseudo-canon at best. If we were to add them to the Wiki, try should probably be accompanied by an explanatory note. But I'd completely forgotten about those old bitmaps. I also got an old non-retail version of the game (the OEM version) which had, among other things, those cool afterburner trails.

[TrashMan]

After 8000 years, nothing would ramain at all....NOTHING...

Well, expect maybe some stone structures/statues...ironicly, the stone is still the most durable construction amterial we know.
It's kinda ironic to think that if we were gone tomorrow, after a few hunderd years all of our skyscrapers and bridges would be dust, but the pyramids and hte Colooseum would still probably stand

[Snail]

Yeah, because the Ancients didn't have access to any building materials superior to stone. It are fact.

[Black Wolf]

Actually... I wonder about that. 8000 years... certain types of concrete might last that, depending on the environment (erosion regime, for he most part). Hardened, buried structures like subsurface bunkers and whatnot should, theoretically at least, survive in part, because they're underground (i.e. minimal destructive forces, although they might theoretically corrode due to groundwater/humic acid, and fill up... although not neccesarily, there are lots of subsurface cavities that don't fill up.

Thick beams of materials like aluminium might survive, given the oxide coating, although again, environmental factors play a part. Then there's stuff like the non-biodegradeable plastics - not building materials, I guess, but they'd exist as evidence of our society...

Remember, even relatively delicate structures like papyrus have survived from Ancient Egypt, and a lot of good archaeological information comes out of places like Catal Huyuk (sp.?). I suspect that the Ancient homeworld could yet yield up some cool information, and potentially technology, but since nobody's ever excavated a technological society, there's really no way to know.

[Drogoth]

Factor in the fact that there is no way the Shivans couldn't have hit every single space borne station/habitat. There's got to be something still plugging around in the outer reaches of systems where no one ever goes.

[Snail]

Yes. Such as the Knossos.